A Marriage Battleground: The Toilet Seat
Whether it's up or it's down, the toilet seat represents bigger issues in a marriage.
Men think they are 100% straight shooters. Even if we want to believe that the majority of men have perfect aim (which is NOT true), it's clear that most haven't made the quantum leap necessary to understand the difference between a latrine—which is, by definition, a toilet used only by men—and a bathroom that's in one's home, to be used by everyone who lives in the house, as well as by any visitor. Read: Sharing a Bathroom? Cohabitation Tips
Whether men agree with the following statement or not, nothing can change the reality of it: Leaving the toilet seat up is a clear statement of control and power. Somehow, men have designated themselves as "owner of the toilet seat," and have made its "normal" position open—and up. And the problem doesn't stop with men, as this behavior shows children (from the time they are toilet-trained) that when a woman wants to use his toilet seat, she must first put the seat down, every single time she needs to use it.
Here's a scenario that has played out in millions of homes: It's 2:00 AM... she's pregnant... and groggily awakens to go to the bathroom, and doesn't turn the light on. Upon sitting, she's not groggy anymore! She just sat on a cold, wet (with his urine!) porcelain toilet base, and may have also wet her bottom with the water that's in the toilet. (Did he also forget to flush it?) Read: Conquer His-And-Hers Bathroom Clutter
Although a relatively small issue, control struggles like these damage self-esteem, and it's women—in their constant effort to improve/change/save the relationship—who consistently take in the most emotional damage as they try to adjust and change themselves to become "acceptable." To change these conditions, women need to take back control (at least some of it), and by doing so, they can clearly demonstrate to men how to provide what they want and need. No mixed signals, no misinterpretations, and no wondering: just clear, respectful demands for what they need as women. Men need to be held 100% accountable for their actions (or inactions) by the women in their lives; women need to hold the line, and not allow men to behave like bratty children in their attempts to get away with controlling everything.
Written by Charles Orlando for Momlogic.
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Discussion
Okay, to me this is such a joke. C'mon, is this REALLY that much of an issue? I have lived with two older sisters and now have more women in relation to my married life, as well as two boys of my own, and I have yet to have an argument over this. I may be an exception, but I can't stand the toilet even being left open when not in use. Seriously, who want's to walk by a bathroom and see the inside of a toilet no matter how clean it is? I make sure (mostly on my own) that the toilet lid is always down when not in use.
I understand the issue with pee on the toilet seat. Like I said I have two boys and they have their own bathroom upstairs near their bedrooms. They don't have a good aim. But at the same token, they could care less where that pee goes. But that's a different story altogether.
Sorry, but like I said, I may be an exception but I am a bathroom neat freak. I can't stand dirty bathrooms nor dirty toilets. It's disgusting even for me to see any yellow anywhere on a toilet. With that said, I also have a three year old daughter. I have been taking her to the potty ever since she was potty trained. While in public that means the men's restrooms. And yes, I have made sure she didn't touch anything until I have inspected and wiped clean. (Oh by the way, how many of you men even wash your hands after you use the bathroom? Honestly.) But back to my daughter. I have learned something about women by taking her to go potty. At least this seams to explain something about my wife. Her pee does not go straight down as I had innocently thought for many years. In fact it goes a little forward towards the front of the toilet and sometimes splashes underneath the front of the toilet seat. Discovering that had enlightened me to the cause of another problem similar to the seat up/seat down argument.
For many years of marriage I have had a toilet issue with my wife that I have been afraid to confront her with. You see, as long as I can remember living with her I have always noticed stains and mildew build up underneath the front of the toilet seat as well as under the lip of the front of the toilet bowl with an odor to go along with it. I used to clean it up constantly and just wasn't sure how it happened. At first I thought it was from her long "reading sessions" while sitting on the pot whereas the moisture from such a prolonged period of enclosure would build up and remain afterwards to grow into such stains and mildew. But it wasn't until after having taken my daughter to the potty so many times that I realized it was my wife who was getting pee under the toilet seat. I mean, I would go in after her to use the bathroom and while picking up the seat I would see urine running down it from underneath. Disgusting! I use toilet paper now to pick up the seat before I use the bathroom and then wipe it all off before I even begin to go myself. What gets me is that she doesn't seem to be aware of it herself AT ALL. She has gone in to clean the toilets once in awhile and only wonders why or how the toilet seat gets so dirty underneath.
To me, this is beyond the old toilet seat battle. But how do I point it out to her delicately? I also want to know if any of you men have noticed anything similar.
Oh, by the way. For you women, sometimes it isn't our aim that's the problem. Sometimes it just doesn't come out in a strait stream right away. But men should just clean up after themselves as well.
Well, all I can tell you is that I've never been aware of the problem you mention. Perhaps it is something most women do without knowing it. I am not sure how to avoid the problem, either.
Have you considered using the stuff that puts blue chemicals into the toilet bowl every time you flush?
My dad died when I was only 4 but one thing that he did was to bring me into the bathroom and instruct me on how to put the seat up to pee and put it back down when done.
In reality, the toilet is not a good design for peeing while standing. Women, pour water from a watering can into your toilet from a standing position and you will see that some of it will splash up and out of the bowl. It is simple physics. I almost think that a man should pee into a half-gallon size bottle and then pour it into the toilet from an inch above the water.
I realize this should not be an issue but it is. I grew up in a predominately female household so the males knew to close the seat. I had a situation similiar to this but I soon handled it. I had twins girls and about a month later my childrens father's cousin had to move in with us because he was relocated to the area and their father was all about him moving in.
Long story short it is amazing what a woman can come up with to fix a solution to get the point across. The mothers out there I am sure can relate to this one. I was staying up all hours of the night trying to get the girls on the same schedule because in the hospital they were on completely opposite schedules (which makes no sense there is only one of me) So needless to say as a sleep deprived female I got tired of fussing about the silly toilet so I went in there and GLUED the silly thing down. I had one too many falls and I managed to get the last laugh.
Now that I look back on it (4 years later) I can admit I was some what crazy but I still laugh about it.
Let me start this off by saying... this is dumb.
There is no power struggle going on here. You want the seat down? then put it down when you walk in the bath room. When I walk in I put it up. Seems pretty damn simple to me.
We both want it, or need in different position when we use it.
The cool thing to do is to just put both lids down no matter what... then she has to lift (same thing as putting it down) every time she goes in the bathroom. So even though she thinks she's winning she's doin just as much work as if it were up each time.
Personally this just one more thing for women to b!tch about... they are gonna find something no matter what is... its their nature.
Wow, you state that there is no "power struggle here" and then go on to contradict yourself by referring to others, in this case a woman, expecting common courtesy as "winning." You have managed to expose your own inner turmoil more than a piddly "toilet issue."
Also, "Personally this just one more thing for women to b!tch about... they are gonna find something no matter what is... its their nature."
Really, love? Really? Please, do tell us your opinion on....drum roll, please....black people, people better off than you, homosexuals, the government, etc. etc. and anyone else who may be NOT LIKE YOU.
Do yourself a favour and work on yourself. No matter where you go in life and no matter what you do, you always take yourself with you.
That is reality.
I WAS MARRIED SO LONG I GOT TIRED OF TELLING HIM TO PUT DOWN THE TOILET. SO WHEN I WENT INTO THE BATHROOM I WOULD JUST CHECK MAKE SURE THE SEAT IS DOWN. BESIDES WE WERE ARGUING ABOUT MORE IMPORTANT THINGS BESIDES A TOILET SEAT!
the men always win this battle. we know that the women do use the tiolet seat nearly as much as men do so it is our way of showing we own the territory
This topic is beyond ridiculous. The age-old argument "what if she gets up to pee in the middle of the night" isn't valid because men also get up in the night.... and we check the seat before ploppin' down. Shouldn't you check to be sure both lids aren't down before lowerin' that ass?
Whenever there is a woman in my life, I effort toward keeping the seat in a more "neutral" position, sure, but the 'bottom' line (hehehe) is that everyone should always just check the state of the can before proceeding.
Why men should put the toilet seat down after they use it:
1) It will impress and please women.
2) If the toilet seat is left up and a woman inadvertently sits down, the result is more unpleasant than if the toilet seat is left down and a man doesn't notice (although that may not be too great either).
3) Since a woman will always want the toilet seat down and a man will sometimes want the toilet seat down, there are more times when someone walking into the bathroom will need a seat that is down. Factor in that women use the bathroom more often and the default position for the toilet seat should be down.
4) Putting down the toilet seat is the last remnant of chivalry.
5) The extra exercise of lifting and lowering the seat and help men burn off abdominal fat. This will make their penises bigger and raise their testosterone level.
Is this still really an issue? Is it really about "power" rather than laziness? It sounds like a bad stand up act from the early 1990s. "Have you ever seen a guy who refuses to ask for directions? What's up with THAT?" Let me know when we get to the "white guys look silly when they try to dance" portion of the routine.
Although, it should be said that I agree with Sarah, not flushing, unless the rationale is very good and specific, is pretty much disgusting. Urine, when left to its own devices, really stinks. And getting someone else's urine on you (unless expressly requested) is pretty much gross.
If you don't think men turn it into a "control issue" then read the post from the first guy on this thread. He refers to a simple courtesy - putting the seat down - as "winning." He attempts to argue that it isn't about control but then goes on to negate his very argument. That guy must be a right, royal pain in the arse to live with because, yes, folks, there are people who turn every-little-thing-into-an-argument. That guy is one of them.
My ex-husband, my brother, my father NEVER left a toilet open because it's just rude and it is saying to the world "I don't give a fig about anyone else but myself!"
I dated one, count 'em, one man who made the toilet an "issue" and he didn't last. I, personally have better things to think about so when I use something that has a door / lid / cap / opening / I CLOSE it when I finish with it. You wouldn't leave your fridge open or - unless you're a complete slob - your chest of drawers or your front door open so why would anyone - male or female - leave a toilet open?
Also, I had a flat mate who left the toilet open and I asked him to please close it but then his girlfriend (who didn't live in the house) had their baby and I told him, "Ah, yes! Your baby is going to teach you to close that toilet." I explained it to him and typical of new parents, it didn't take him long to visualise his toddler with her face on the seat where he has just parked his arse." Children go everywhere and there is something very attractive about putting their little hand up on that toilet and hanging on it. Also, after having seen more than one child try to "swim" in the bowl, common sense dictates that you just close it.
On another note, and I must admit, my favourite. A friend of mine who was an auto-mechanic popped around during his break to my apartment which was just about a block away from the garage, when I lived in Washington state, USA to tell me that he'd just had the shock of his life when he was taking a leak and watched a rat swim up through the toilet....Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha....Now, all those men at the garage close their toilet after seeing that!
Yea, those who make something as stupid as a toilet an "issue" are pretty lame. Yes, men folk, I'm talking to YOU.
Agreed.
I really don't think this is a control issue so much as the 99% of natural male thoughtlessness and laziness. Sure, Tom and I were taught well by our mothers and you'll find a lot of other men who are as well, but, and I gotta be honest, this isn't some huge male conspiracy to be in control of a population in which we are vastly out numbered.
Maybe there are a few control freaks out there who married each other and have daily skirmishes like this in their constant battle for household supremacy - First person to grab the remote, why do I have to do dishes if I'm taking out the garbage, you want to go dancing and I wanna go to a bar, toilet seat up/down - but, really, is it that difficult? Does it need to have this stigma of attempted dominance over your partner about it? Your guy forgets to put the seat down, usually because there is only so much time for a pee break during the commercials before the game gets back on (or whatever reason)....could be worse.
He could just leave the seat down all the time even when he is going number 1...
There is nothing worse than going to the bathroom in the middle of the night and thunking your butt down on the porcelain rim instead of the seat. EW! But my DH has a point. I don't leave it up for him. So, I've gotten over the frustration.
What I ask now is that he just cleans the bathroom once a week. His bathroom gets NIZASTY!
My pet peeve about the toilet doesn't have to do with whether the seat is up or down--it has to do with flushing. I know that it saves water to not flush, but it grosses me out to pee over someone else's pee. I find men often don't flush and leave a yellow toilet bowl waiting for the next person. What if some splashes onto me? If it's my own that's one thing, but someone else's that's been sitting in the toilet? Yuck.
down is technically the normal toilet seat position. i mean if he wants to go number two, the seat would have be down.
I bet in a household of guys, they might leave the seat up and just put it down when they need to. In a household of women, the seat would never be up.
Yes, I think in a mixed household it makes more sense to keep the seat down, but I don't think you can say the guy is trying to control your if he doesn't agree.
I once "cured" the problem of the one guy in a shared house not closing the toilet when he finished by removing the seat. You'll find out pretty damned quick that it IS, indeed, about control, when these men who make it into an issue by leaving the seat up when they've been asked nicely to close it as a courtesy suddenly realise that if they HAVE to have it up so badly, then they can just use the damned thing all the time like that. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha....
I could understand the "laziness" thing that some guys on here have posted but is THAT really an excuse? That is another way of saying, "I don't give a toss about anyone else but myself." Why is it always women who can't play the "lazy" card. If you've moved out of Mommy and Daddy's house, you're a grown up which means that, whilst we'd all like to be "lazy" every once in a while, we can't. Why is it always women who are expected not to be lazy but men use that as if it is a universally accepted character of being a "guy". I say "guy" because men use their minds more efficiently and if they were asked nicely to please put down a seat or to close a toilet they'd just do it. Why? Because they love their partner / spouse / significant other and in turn, their partner does the same for them.
It's just about being a grown-up, really.
I can bet you that if it's something THEY want to happen, then laziness isn't an issue.
