Why Orthodox Jews May Have The Hottest Sex Lives
Orthodox Judaism keeps husband and wife apart and passion alive.
Two little drops of reddish brown on my underwear. Here we go again.
Since I had kids my cycle is irregular, which wouldn't be a big deal except that I'm an Orthodox Jew and I can't even pass the salt to my husband—let alone touch, kiss, or have sex with him—for 12 days after my period starts. We never know when we'll have to sleep in separate beds or place a vase with a single rose between us on the dinner table as evidence of our separation.
I was beginning to hate the rigid restrictions on my sex life until the other day, when I was sitting on a blanket with my two toddlers in a suburban Detroit park, eating pretzels from Ziploc bags and listening to other moms talking about their sex lives.
"We haven't had sex since we conceived the twins," said one mom. "And they're a year-and-a-half old. Add nine months to that."
"I just don't feel like it since I had my baby," confessed another, stroking her 15-month-old's hair.
Then came the really shocking admissions. "I'd love to have sex," a third mom said, "but I'd have to do all the work. My husband isn't interested." A fourth mother described her marriage as being more like a brother-sister relationship than a passionate or fierce one.
As I listened to one woman after another bemoan her sad sex life, I thought about how, after five years of marriage, Avy and I are hotter than ever. Suddenly, I felt very religious.
When I was a horny college senior in love with a Catholic boy from the East Coast, I never would have believed that one day I'd be an Orthodox Jewish wife with two beds in my room. "No way," I'd have said, if you'd told me that my husband would sleep in a twin bed shoved against the wall and I would check the color of mucus in my underwear until seven "clean" days had passed since my period and I could dunk in the ritual bath, or mikvah.
I've always been Jewish, but I didn't become Orthodox until I was in my twenties. I chose this way of living because I liked the way Orthodox husbands looked at their wives—with smoldering sensuality, hidden knowing, and reverence. They spoke sweetly and didn't play games, and I never saw the flicker of distance in their eyes. After years of dating guys who didn't pay for my dinner, much less pay attention to me, I was ready for a real connection. Hooking up wasn't getting me what I wanted: love. It was time to try something else, and this looked like a world I could get into. There are many elements of Judaism that keep me religious, but the most compelling one is observant marriage.
Discussion
At first Waiting for her to return from the mikvah was an exciting time and heightened our feelings. The off-time seemed like a nice lull in pace and furthered the passions. However..when she decided to stop going things went south quick. I've heard from more than one person here (BP) that their wives will not go to the mikvah if there has been an argument or if they're not living a life of domestic bliss they envisioned as a youngster. Since there is no chance at all that we would have relations since she is a perpetual niddah (by not going to the mikvah) I have stopped observing harchokos and take things out of her hand etc. Mikvah is a powerful tool for women who wish to take power in a relationship and for the husband there is no recourse. No wonder there are so many frum people visiting "Ladies of the evening". Im done with mikvahs, I stopped going myself even on erev Yom Kippur. The whole thing has me turned off.
In defense of the author:
Yes, she wrote this beautiful piece, and now since she is divorcing it seems like it’s just hypocritical hogwash.
Going through something similar myself – I have to say, quite the opposite is true. You see, these observances and the powerful intimacy they create are so amazing that they can even fool you when there is little true intimacy in a marriage.
I am going through a divorce after 14 years of marriage, during which we kept these same observances. I realize now that if not for them (these laws and rituals) I probably would be divorcing a whole lot sooner. For me this was not a good thing, this illusion of intimacy – it backfired because I got married and got religious for the wrong reasons, namely to get away from feeling so lonely (the author, it seems, made similar errors). But that was MY mistake. If the foundation is not good, nothing can save the relationship…. But probably the intention here was to help couples whose foundation is good, to keep the “magic” of love and desire going. If you are truly in love with your spouse, but the daily grind gets in the way of really feeling that love, who wouldn’t welcome a little illusion to help them feel reality? Isn’t that what mood lighting and music do too…
But illusion to mask reality… ah, that’s dangerous.
We wouldn’t negate the effectiveness of candles and sexy music just because the couple later broke up. In fact it shows what such methods can do, for better or for worse – that’s up to us.
If you read the author's blog, she notes that she is now in the middle of divorcing her husband! So much for the ancient Jewish laws keeping their marriage hot. This article was only published about 1.5 years ago, and Schreiber tells us how happy her marriage is. But it does now sound that she has been unhappy for a long time, judging from her blog, so it is curious why she even bothered to write this article at all.
The moral of the story seems to be that becoming Orthodox didn't guarantee her the husband of her dreams. It struck me as a very peculiar reason to become orthodox in the first place, or her idea that orthodox men were somehow a step above the average. Perhaps now is a good time for Schreiber to reconsider what she wants in her religious faith and in a husband.
Here's what she says about her "wonderful" husband now via her blog: "My three children – gifts, all – will learn in time that their father does not have it together. They will be disappointed by him....But I know there will be pockets of dangling when I’ll have to remember why I ended my marriage in the first place: because I deserve more than a life of loneliness." This is why you don't write articles about how your marriage is morally superior to everyone else's. I feel bad for her and her kids.
I converted to orthodox Judaism when I was 21 years old, was "dunked" in the mikvah by the Holy Beit Din of Yerushalayim Ir HaKodesh for my conversion. I believed that I had found G-d. I was devout and devoted to both othodox Judaism and my husband. Instead I found a closed community ruled by men. [Thank you Anonymous Commentor #5.]
I left Jewish practice because my husband was anything like Ms. Schreiber's. [Thank you Anonymous Commentor #9.]
My cycle was irregular during my orthodox marriage and continued to be so up until I had a hysterectomy at the age of 42. [Halleluyah, I wish I had done this immediatly after my second daughter was born, what a relief!]
This was a biological problem that orthodox Judaism could not and would not help me with the situation--12 days! Hah! I would have welcomed 12 days. Try 6 months, then going to the mikveh and that very night before intercourse becoming tameh again, or how about right after this first intercourse and having to separate the beds again and go another 4 months. My downstairs neighbor complained about the sound of us pushing the beds together and then pulling them apart so quickly. [She didn't know why, thank G-d.]
Per my husband's orders, my b'dikah cloths andor underweear had to be shown to nothing less than the Chief Rabbi . . . talk about daunting when your husband is away for miluim and one spots frequently as I did. I never hit my fertile "period" since I ovulated so irregularly and could not have sex the majority of the time. I only go pregnant when (1) I was coming off of birth-control pills [the only way to have a regular period, and, yes, they were sanctioned by the Chief Rabbi too!] and (2) when I took ferility pills to make me ovulate. Thank G-d I only had these two children in hindsight (and I thank G-d that I do have two lovely grown-up daughters). But it was quite a shanda to have to explain why I wasn't pregnant, wasn't pregnant, wasn't pregnant, no I was just fat . . .
Thank you Commentor #16, my husband didn't "really" love me, he did nothing to make our marriage exciting, and even posited that the problems I was having with irregular periods and spotting was G-d punishing him (my husband) for his having gotten two prior girlfriends pregnant and having abortions before he "hashav b'tshuva."
My conversations with other orthodox wives and Rabbis were met with pitying signs and the few offers of assistance from Rabbis were overruled by by husband as not being good enough, since they were not the Chief Rabbi [have I mentioned how hard it was to get an appointment with him, get a babysitter, take 2 buses in the Jerusalem rain to show him a cloth that had been in my vagina?!?].
Last but not least, while I live and let live and I know that G-d loves me and all of creation (no mistakes), when people who have not lived this life ask me about it, I give them the example that if I as a woman have to cover MY elbows (guard the mitzvah!) so that a man, my husband or otherwise, would not get turned on by seeing a woman's ELBOW (!), there is something wrong with that allegedly pious man and with the rules that dictate this. This is why I left practice and my husband (there were obviously personal conflicts here too! LOL!).
I will be Jewish according to Judaism forever. I prefer to think of myself as a precious child of G-d and an Israeli.
Cheers!
Yocheved
P.S. Both of my daughters have thanked me on numerous occasions for taking them out of orthodox Judaism and only now as adults do they feel comfortable re-establishing a relationship with their still orthodox. . . Rabbi. . . Abba, because they have control of their own lives.
Also, recommended viewing, "Kadosh," it's on DVD . . . oh, wait, can you watch movies?!?!?
What a wonderful and well-written story. Thank you for sharing it with us...
female // Mar 27, 2007 at 6:50 am
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Whereas I share your particular "preference" for sex during that time of the month, not all women feel the same way. Some truly hate sex at that time, so remember that we are all different when it comes to things so intimate and personal.
Yochanan // Jan 7, 2008 at 10:43 am
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I read nothing arrogant in this story at all and wonder why you reacted so strongly. Lynne Schreiber wrote a very personal account of a "discovery" she unearthed while talking to other women on the topic of sex after marriage. People react in different ways to day to day intimacies and some find that it can "kill" the romance/ This is a very problem that I have heard and experienced first hand. What you DO about the problems is the real issue at hand and it takes a lot of thought, work and even discussion to resolve any problem, but especially when dealing with such an important and intimate one.
I found her story fascinating and loved hearing about new traditions and/or rituals and this one was particularly illuminating. Arrogant? Not in the least and quite frankly I find that your grouping the author along with ALL JEWS to be insulting and actually off kilter. This was a PERSONAL story about her love and sex life with her husband; she was hardly writing for all women, but her own alone.
I understand if you are put off by some peoples choices in behavior, but perhaps you should also realize that revealing such personal rituals needn't mean that it is the only way for all. I think that perhaps you might have read into this than was actually there within, exept for your very last comment stating "Whatever works for you, I guess."
Now that is the actual issue!
Yochanan, why do you feel this is a matter of the author asserting her superiority? i am not jewish so it seems a little extreme and out there for me, but i can appreciate the value of the mikvah and attendant rituals and how it all culminates in teh feelings of gratitude and blessings. seems like a good thing for a couple to specifically carve out ways to appreciate one another. isn't every one asking how do i keep my marriage exciting?? there is a lot to be said about the power of ritual and taking time to reflect and be grateful.
Oy vey.
Where is an "Orthodox" rabbi to convert me from my apostasy so I can "really" love my wife and "notice the details"? I'm so repulsed by the arrogance of the holier-than-thou Jews, who think that their ways prove that they have more kavanah than the rest of us.
Whatever works for you, I guess.
I'm delighted to read that the author of this story has found happiness by obeying ancient rituals that would drive most of us nuts. The kernel of truth in this narrative, that familiarity breeds contempt and continuing passion requires moderation is obvious to anyone over thirty.
Hilarious though, that these ancient rules of our barbaric past which were meant to restrict and control sexual behavior are now being used as a "secret" way of keeping sexual passion alive. History is not without a sense of irony, it seems.
Could it be you are luckly and have a loving husband? I mean there are probably lots of Orthodox Jewish women who have bad sex lives.
Oh, well whatever makes you happy just as long as you don't expect eveyone else to follow your path.
I am a man who has been happily married for 55 years. And I am an atheist, while my wife is a Catholic. I am a lay student of theology and anthropology, along with two degrees and 5 majors, all in science. I found this article to be a beautiful statement of a woman's commitment to her religion and to her husband. Many thanks for sharing it.
Theres nothing hotter than making love when you're bleeding. Get a life girls.
i really did enjoy this story. i am a Christian and my husband and i do refrain from making love during my menstrual cycle. its very hard to do this but hearing this story has made me feel different towards not having sex while in my time of the month. i agree with the writer you begin to yearn more for the touch of your spouse and you dont take the act of making love for granted.
This article gives me hope. Given that the author lives a life little different from that of the Muslim woman beneath her burkha, it would seem that there is room for the beginning of a dialogue that could heal these two troubled peoples.
How ironic that their first piece of common ground will be a profound loathing for an entire half of our species.
What a pathetic ex post facto excuse for submitting to the bigotries and taboos of a bygone barbaric age!
I thoroughly enjoyed the article and found it to be thought provoking and informative. one of the previous comments really annoyed me, though. The person responding made mention of Orthodox Jews not being allowed to use birth control, when the author of this article specifically stated birth control was permitted. If you're going to criticize someone's beliefs, at least make sure you have the facts straight, instead of rambling on with grandiose words, trying to sound knowledgable about a subject in which you are obviously not well versed.
Lynne Schreiber very nicely omits the fact that this religious ritual basically ensures that women have sex at their most fertile times. There is nothing mystical or magical about this practice, and certainly I have to vehemently disagree with another poster who wrote,"the practice of Niddah to be a very meaningful way of celebrating their femininity, of validating their personal space within their marriages..."
I suppose if being perpetually pregnant is your idea of celebraing your feminiity, then more power to you. I don't want to criticize anyone's faith or religious beliefs, but the idea that this practice is somehow holy or the word of God really grates on me. As a medical anthropologist and historian, a number of ancient cultures were apparently knowledgable enough about the human body to recognize when sexual contact was most likely to create a pregnancy. This practice no only ensures that a women will have sex when she is most fertile, but the period of abstinence also may help a man with his sperm count.
Along with not using birth control, this is probably the reason why so many ultra-orthodox Jews and Hasidic have very large families.
So sorry, no insult to Schreiber, who by the way, doesn't sound all that enthusiastic about it (note the way she begins the article), but this ancient holy ritual is merely a way that men, undoubtedly, figured out to keep their women producing sons.
I found Schreiber's reasoning to become orthodox strange to say the least. It's one thing to be drawn to a faith, or to become more involved in your own faith because of a deep spritual longing----but Schrieber basically says that she wanted to find a husband!
Uh, having grown up in an orthodox household and environment, I can assure her that orthodox Jewish men do not "look" at their wives any differently than other men. They do not treat women any better or worse, and relationships have jsut as many problems. I can recall the conversations of women around the dining room table, about husbands, love and sex. No different from anywhere else.
Perhaps the divorce rate isn't as high, but that is because divorce is frowned upon and it can be difficult for a woman to get a Jewish sanctioned divorce. So it doesn't mean that all of these marriages are blissful, and full of hot sex, and that the men are just doting on their women.
Schreiber's article is relatively void of emotion and I hear no joy or passion for her religion. It sounds like she's reciting a laundry list and that she isn't all that enthusiastic about these restraints on her life.
I left the orthodox lifestyle as soon as I hit adulthood, and one of the reasons was that the dogma and restrictions made no sense to me. I was not going to blindly follow rituals and restrictions that I did not believe in. Schreiber, unfortunately, sounds the same way---at least in this article.
It is wonderful to hear of other married couples sharing a strong relationship. I am not Jewish but do have times where my husband travels 5-10 days out at a time. At first it was really difficult but as our years together started passing by, I realized it was good for our relationship. We don't take each other for granted as many seem to and our friendship is even stronger. We both get time to our selves and sex has never been better. In January of 2007, we will celebrate our 27th wedding anniversary.
To anyone just starting your marriage or considering marriage...just remember love takes time and anything worth having is worth working hard to achieve.
I am sorry that the previous commenter has had such negative experiences with these practices. There are thousands of observant women who would not agree with all of his/her statements. Although it is true that the bulk of Talmudic law is authored by men, a significant part of the Talmudic laws and current practices having to do with niddah are, in fact, based in part on the customs that the women themselves developed at the time of the Talmud (see Tractate Niddah 66a).
I don't believe Ms. Schreiber was pretending that the sentiments expressed in this essay are novel. As a scholar herself (see her work in "Hide and Seek"), I am sure that she is aware that they are themselves found in the Talmud (Niddah 31b). Most of the women who observe these laws are not Baalei Teshuva and I am not presuming to understand Ms. Schreiber's religious psychology. Many women, of different denominations, find the practice of Niddah to be a very meaningful way of celebrating their femininity, of validating their personal space within their marriages and of highlighting a variety of psychological issues that arise within any couple dynamic.
For further information on women's continued involvement in the legal evolution of the practice of the mitzvah of mikvah, see www.yoatzot.org. A wonderful collection of essays on the topic is Total Immersion, edited by Rivka Slonim.
Don't be fooled. This is a classic apologetic for a practice that is part of an extremely complex system of ritual impurity laid out in the Hebrew bible. In its current form, the laws which govern the practice of "family purity" are a construct of Jewish males in the 4th-7th centuries. Women and their bodies become the subject of rabbinic speculation without input from those who know the female body best: WOMEN! The author of this article is too overcome by her fervent zealousness associated with newfound religiousity to deal with complicated and troubling texts in any critical way. Please read Charlotte Elisheva Fonrobert's "Menstrual Purity: Rabbinic and Chrisitan Reconstructions of Biblical Gender" for a thorough and thought-provoking look at the primary texts which this practice is based on and a discussion of their ramifications for how women's bodies are perceived by religious men AND women.
What a great story of how to build a strong marriage. I am a single dad and I am not Jewish, I am raising my children alone in a christian home.
I think Lynn and Avy have a great home and personal life that enriches the entire family. Intimacy needs to be special. Thanks for your story. Hugh
What a great story of how to build a strong marriage. I am a single dad and I am not Jewish, I am raising my children alone in a christian home.
I think Lynn and Avy have a great home and personal life that enriches the entire family. Intimacy needs to be special. Thanks for your story. Hugh
This is a very beautiful story. A marriage is sacred, and it's wonderful to hear of people in this world who believe this.... and who have such a specially relationship with their spouse. My husband and I also have some of the same beliefs in this story, although the sexual relationship is not the same. We enjoy each other in that way nearly everyday or more. I have to say that separation does have it's benefits though... there are times when we have to be apart (if I take the kids to visit my parents 16 hrs away, or changing jobs and he has to be away working for several weeks), and when we come back to each other, it is very "hot", that's for sure. AND after I had my kids.... we had to wait several weeks, til I knew my body was ready, you know. But it is very interesting at what this "12 day" routine can do for a marriage.... it sounds very sexy, and refreshing, and intimate. In this world, people take each other for granted so much of the time, especially in a marriage. Thankfully, my husband and I have been truly blessed with a unique and beautiful marriage, and although we do have rough times, our marriage grows stronger every day.
It is such a blessing to hear your story and realize that y'all don't take each other for granted. I love the fact that y'all notice things about each other that most people would never even think of. How romantic! Blessings to your wonderful marriage :)
I thought this was the sweetest story ever., you never realize how strong the power of touch is! My opinon I think is more powerful than sex, it catches you off guard.
Even though I am not an orthodox jew, I am a baptist. I thought your story was very interesting and I learned more about your religion. Good luck on your marriage!
I thought this was the sweetest story ever., you never realize how strong the power of touch is! My opinon I think is more powerful than sex, it catches you off guard.
Even though I am not an orthodox jew, I am a baptist. I thought your story was very interesting and I learned more about your religion. Good luck on your marriage!