Portrait Of An Open Marriage
It began with a threesome. And became her key to happily ever after.
I was 17 when my sexual education began.
"You are responsible for your own orgasm," my boyfriend told me. He was the guy I lost my virginity to, the guy I had my first orgasm with, and the guy whose words would one day become my mantra: I am responsible for my own orgasm. I believe that literally and figuratively. In bed, I play an active role in getting what I want. But I also take charge of getting what I want throughout my sexual life. That’s why, along with a husband I adore, I have lovers. My husband and I have an open marriage. I know it may sound decadent, or like a throwback to the "free love" of the '60s. But really, for all the hype, "open marriage" is just one of many ways to negotiate love and sex and marriage. We haven’t been doing it that long, but it now seems so obvious. Like, "Why on earth didn’t we think of this before?" 5 Things I Wish I Knew About Sex at 30
I have always liked sex. I mean really, really liked sex. I have been accused, in fact, of "thinking like a man." That is, of seeing sex as something wholly separate from love. When my husband and I first started dating, it was obvious even then that our drives were quite different. As much as he enjoyed sex, he didn’t need or want it as often as I did. But I fell so madly in love with him, I figured it didn’t matter.
I was terribly wrong.
Three years into our marriage, I began to feel itchy. So I had an affair. She was beautiful, an artist I met through a mutual friend. I deliberately chose to have an affair with a woman, rationalizing that it wasn't as bad as sleeping with another man. (Simply by virtue of his gender, my husband never could be for me what she could be.) 4 Types Of Infidelity & How Affairs Help Marriage
She wasn't the first woman I’d been with. When my husband and I began dating, I told him that I was bisexual. "I don't care who you were with before," he told me. "But once it’s just you and me, it's just you and me." And that’s why—as lovely and sweet as my affair with Artist Girl was—it was awful, too. I felt sick about lying to my husband, sick about wanting to be with her, sick for not just calling it off—or avoiding it in the first place.
I thought hard about how I had gotten there. At first, I figured that my being with her really was about my bisexuality, about a part of me that I simply couldn't brush aside. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that wasn’t true: It was about wanting more sex than my husband could offer, and sex different from that which any one person could provide.
Discussion
I don't really understand,How can a person love someone and yet want to have sex with someone else.Im not a very bright individual but I believe a person who is like that isn't true to himself.
Why does every advocate of open marriages think monogamists don't want to do it because of jealousy,Sure there are some that don't want to do it because of that,but those people have low self esteem issues.
I think the real reason we don't wanna do this is because we love our wife or whatever.
I for own wouldn't wanna do this because I want to be true to myself like I was taught as a child.
To be a sex freak is not a very manly attitude its in fact very sad pathetic excuse of a man who doesn't know what he wants and doesn't want to accept the truth of his desires.
I started reading these articles lately because I keep hearing everywhere now that a good relationship is open one.Here I thought a good relationship is when you love your wife and don't want to be with anyone else but her.
This kinda frustrated me and made me not ever wanna get married or even get in relationships,in fact screw it I'm staying promiscuous.
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David
geo tv
This is just something that comes up from time to time and gets to me.
Of course one person doesn't satisfy all your needs. If you try to do that, you will go crazy.
That doesn't mean you can't be monogamous. You can stay with your lover your whole life and you can do it a whole lot better if you have friends and family to hang out with.
You can also be faithful sexually. I don't buy the idea that people "need" to experience sex with lots of different people.
WOW, LOVED THE ARTICLE. I can see where many folks would not like the article, and how many would find it interesting. There is a lot of "Cheating" as it is put out there, much more then most people realize. I also find it hard to believe that ONE PERSON is to fulfill ALL OF YOUR NEEDS THROUGH A LIFETIME. It just doesn't happen for what ever reason. Me, I would like to have an open marriage to the point I would much rather my wife takes an additional lover, a regular lover and friend. (The only rule is that it will be my wife and I together for the rest of our lives because I love her so much, and that we have been so great together or almost 40 years.) I don't care if this person is with us the rest of our lives or not, but for it to be a long term relationship for the three of us. No, I am not gay, but want to give my wife more. I also believe it would be great to be there with her and hold her hand or provide extra assistance for pleasure form time to time. She knows what I want, but for what ever reason she has declined my offers for her to go ahead and enjoy life a little more. Hopefully, one day she will say yes........
I'm tired of reading all these articles from people talking about how great open marriages are. You can never find the stories that depict the cons so people that are considering it only hear the positive. Well, my curiosity brought me and my husband into a swinging lifestyle much like an open marriage only couples do everything together. We've been in it for about four years and I've told my husband I want out.
Swingers have their own parties, clubs, social online networks, meet and greets and even resorts on exotic islands. Initially I started out because I had a curiosity to explore sexuality with another woman. It was okay, I didn't love it. The cons in swinging? Both parties have to be mutually attracted to the other couple...otherwise you're taking one for the team. Not every beautiful person pairs up with an equally beautiful person. Their parties & clubs are super expensive so you feel you have to hook up with someone just to make it woth your while. Also, these parties have playrooms that are pretty open so if you're playing with a couple sometimes unwanted couples come and automatically join in and you're faced with having to insult them by declining. You have to interview each couple to find out what they do and don't do. OMG and there is jealousy. I can't count the number of times I've seen people fight over jealousy! One time I witnessed a guy punch, yes punch, his woman in the face cause she went down on a really attractive male. It's way too stressful of an environment to make it enjoyable.
Realistically, I've found many individuals in that lifestyle doing it just because their partner wants them to. And realistically, it doesn't keep couples together. I've seen couples go from person to person within the lifestyle so it doesn't erase real life problems.
So my take, it's not glamourous or fun at all. And this Jenny person, she's more of a dominatrix practicing cuckolding. Which purely relies on manipulating the male while the female has her share of extramarital affairs.
The best sex is sex with my husband who knows exactly what I like and how I like it. Take it from someone who's been there done that.
I'm a guy, a regular person, a pragmatist, I like to think. Though I reject the conventional constraints society employs to straight jacket one's individuality, I am not exactly the type who planned to engage in the HARRAD EXPERIMENT or BOB,TED, CAROL and ALICE shenanigans either: those relationships were engineered social experiments. In my long-term relationship, my partner and I, being independent and self-sufficient by nature and temperament, believed in compromise and negotiation. The chief virtue of our relationship lay in our common cause: as individuals, we took responsibility for our feelings and owned up to them. Furthermore, we did not seek to possess, control or manipulate the other. When another person was introduced into the relationship, we floundered at first, the dynamics being new and strange. The three of us are still together and the relationship has flourished and in most ways is sublime. Tilda Swinton, the Scottish actress, lives with two men in a long-standing relationship and says "It's the best." Love and sex can be fluid and as thrilling as it is fulfilling.
Well, I always find it fascinating to read about people who can pull this off. Personally, I'm not good at sharing someone I am totally head over heels in love with.
When I was in college I had several boyfriends and had a blast but only because I was not "in love" with any of them. My new husband is a total babe, and I can never contemplate sharing him. I want to feel that I am special and that he and I share something that no other woman can have with him.
My prior husband, I would not have cared if he wanted to be with other women, in fact it would have been a relief to get him out of my hair.
I think that in general, over time, people tend to drift toward one other person, someone who is their "favorite", and someone will always find themself as "odd man out" in a polyamorous relationship , and that has to hurt, if you really are in love and you are not the "favorite". This even happens in platonic relationships, as in "best friends" right? Of course, relationships change, but in general, I think that everyone wants to be "special" to someone. And to me, sex is so intimate, I don't want to "share" with another woman.
Oh for Heavens sake! I am new to this site, and just read through all the posts....I have a question: How many of you really discuss your sexual habits with your children? When you take a trip to an "adult" store, do you come home and show your kids what's in the bag? If you are into S & M, do you wear the leather mask in front of your children? I'm thinkin no. There is nothing wrong with Jenny and her Hubby choosing to NOT tell their child about their open marriage! This does not make her a bad Mother at all. A number of the posts concerned her husband, and the fact that he chooses not to participate in her extramarital activities. Well, if he is fine with it, and is staying married to her, then why is it anyone's place to call HER names and say that she is being unfair?
I for one could not handle an open relationship and I am going to be honest here because I am hearing a lot that it's NOT about jealousy. Well guess what folks: It is for me. I think if all of you that are against it were being honest with yourselvs, it would be for you too. I have no desire to see my man with another woman. It would eat at me if she were more attractive, or had better tits, or whatever. I would, in my mind, believe that he was making comparisons. I know that eventually I would.......I see sex like, well, a woman. I want that to be something that belongs to my man and myself. In order to give of myself freely, I need to be completly comfortable, and knowing that his penis had been inside someone else would throw me off a little....lol.
I have nothing against what Jenny and the other open and polyamorous relationships have going. Shoot, if its between 2 consenting adults and your not harming children or animals, more power to you!
I am a graduate student conducting research for my thesis. My research is examining different relationship styles. I would like to have a variety of relationship styles presented (i.e., open relationships, swinging, polyamorous, monogamous etc.). I would appreciate it if you would take the time to complete a brief on-line survey (the link is posted below).
Thank you for your time and consideration!
Below is the recruitment statement and link to survey:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=v49pfxucDLB1m7SOHTLg7w_3d_3d (email link)
Click Here to take survey (link appropriate for HTLM web-site)
Read more: http://www.yourtango.com/20084854/marriage-without-monogamy-part-four.ht...
I agree with there being different lifestyles for everyone, and I know i could not handle an open relationship, but if thats your thing, cool. The only thing I disagree with about this article is that she seems to be the only one benefiting from the open marriage, yet she continues to say "we". Who, besides her friend has her husband been with? Yes he's free to do so, but obviously doesn't want to, and from reading I get the vibe that the only reason he's ok with this is because he doesn't want to lose her.
So yeah, I'm for it if its what both people want, but that doesn't seem to be the case here, and it just seems really unfair.
My husband and I have been together 11 years, married for 9 of them, and he is my best friend and my partner in all things, as I am his. For the past ten years we've had an open marriage. It originally began with my telling him I was bisexual, because I could not imagine hiding who I was from someone who is supposed to love me. His response was that he kind of had an inkling, lol, since I had such a great appreciation for the female form. What followed was months of in depth talks about what we should do, what would be best for us and we decided that open was the way to go. We have had girlfriends that we share, I have had girlfriends that we did not. For us, sex is not exclusive to love, and sex is a small part of our marriage.
Most of our family knows, although our children do not, as they are two young to be involved with our sex life. I think they should just be allowed to go to elementary school for the moment, and not have to deal with grown up issues. When they are older, we'll discuss it with them, just as we discuss everything else. What my children see is what everyone else sees, a happy, loving, affectionate, supportive couple. I've had many people ask what our secret is to being so happy together and I'm honest with them: It's the open honest communication, trust, respect and genuine affection we have for one another. I could not imagine my life without my husband, he is my rock, my heart, and my joy, and also the sexiest man I have ever known. I totally agree with Jenny when she said that seeing her husband with someone else let her see her him in a new light. I want him more than ever, and I love him more every day.
Our lifestyle is not for everyone, just as cookie cutter monogamy was not for us. It takes a great deal of trust, and love, and honesty to live as we do. It's not for the jealous, or the fickle, but the rewards are great. We're the couple that everyone asks for relationship advice "because we have it so together". Reading these comments makes me wonder how many of those same people would condemn us if they were privy to our sex life.
I don't really understand,How can a person love someone and yet want to have sex with someone else.Im not a very bright individual but I believe a person who is like that isn't true to himself.
Why does every advocate of open marriages think monogamists don't want to do it because of jealousy,Sure there are some that don't want to do it because of that,but those people have low self esteem issues.
I think the real reason we don't wanna do this is because we love our wife or whatever.
I for own wouldn't wanna do this because I want to be true to myself like I was taught as a child.
To be a sex freak is not a very manly attitude its in fact very sad pathetic excuse of a man who doesn't know what he wants and doesn't want to accept the truth of his desires.
I started reading these articles lately because I keep hearing everywhere now that a good relationship is open one.Here I thought a good relationship is when you love your wife and don't want to be with anyone else but her.
This kinda frustrated me and made me not ever wanna get married or even get in relationships,in fact screw it I'm staying promiscuous.
I don't wanna get in a relationship and cheat on her,now dont get me wrong ,its not because I care so much about her,its because I feel that by being adulterous with the one you "love" and then sticking with her.
Would mean that I have to lie to myself and not know what I want from life.
I dont think a open relationship can provide the closeness and passion that a monogamist relationship provides.
Thank you and excuse me for my grammar,I'm only 19 years old
Amazing to me how people need to find a way to label this. It may not work for everyone, and I wouldn't recommend it for a relationship that is troubled. But for my partner and I, it has been an amazing experience to have an open relationship, and actually increased our connection in ways I have never experienced in other long-term relationships. We began to think about alternative approaches after a near-infidelity on his part when I was pregnant. What could have been a disastrous, relationship-ending moment instead turned into a deep, heartfelt conversation (that developed over weeks). What we discovered is that we were both OK with the idea of our partner being intimate with another person,but that we both need honesty. I was only the third sex partner he had ever had (he is an ex-fundamentalist Christian who was in a awful marriage for 8 years), and he wanted to see what experiences were out there waiting. I supported this (having led a pretty adventurous lifestyle in my 20s).
I have read a lot about this since we started and the 2 common elements to doing it successfully seem to be that both parties must agree to have honest communication, and there should be some ground rules - ie, our partnership comes first. all sex must be safe sex. time with our "others" should never take away from our family time together or drain our resources in any way (like, you can't run off for a week in maui with your side dish!) after i had the baby, i went through a period of depression, and told him my self-esteem was simply too low to handle his being with anyone else. he honored my request and remained completely faithful to that commitment until i was ready to move on and open up again. We are both very honest with any potential partners that our relationship comes first, and if they can't or won't respect that, we do not pursue it. i now have a lover who is completely respectful of the situation. recently my partner was dealing with a crisis in his family and asked me to cool things off for awhile as he was very down and needy. it was hard but i did it, and my "boyfriend" had to respect that - which he did. after my partner regained his emotional footing he gave me the green light once more, even when a planned interlude on his side didn't work out.
i have heard the argument "what if he finds something better and wants to move on?" well, realistically, that can happen no matter WHAT your arrangement. i am a biologist, and i will tell you humans are not meant to be monogamous. besides, as he often teases me, why would he leave the women who lets him have sex with other women? and as for my daughter, due to my partner's bitterness toward how he was raised (what he now views as religious oppression in many areas of natural human behavior) and my own personal views that social constructs are sometimes just that, we will raise our daughter without judgment toward sexuality, whatever its expression (gay, bi, transgender, polygamy, and yes, monogamy). i assume the author is doing the same - and i hope that her daughter, and mine, will look upon anyone who taunts or judges her for those views with compassion for their small-mindedness and the restrictive, oppressive worlds they live in. she is being raised by two deliriously happy, supportive parents who are very much in love, respect each other, talk about issues rather than fight or try to hurt one another, and work together through hard times. i think that should teach her a lot of what she needs to know about what is - and isn't -important in the world, in ways that moral diatribes about the importance of long-lived monogamy won't.
I really respect the way the two of you are willing to back off from other relationships for a time when your partner asks you to. To me that is true openness.
A couple of pro-monogamy comments:
1) Sexual monogamy decreases the chances that your partner will fall for someone else. Spending time with someone you care about and are attracted to makes it easier to fall in love with them. When you have two people to choose between, it is easy to make comparisons and wonder, if I were with him, would he fight with me about this? There are no guarantees, but for most people it's a good way to decrease the odds.
2) There is no biological basis for the statement "humans are not MEANT to be monogamous." First, nature does not have a plan!!!!
Second, what is natural for humans in relationships is highly debatable. Animal species come in all varieties, monogamous, promiscuous, polygamous. Our closest relatives the chimps have sex lives that look like NO human society.
Animals that share the responsibility for feeding and caring for children tend to be monogamous. Human infants are highly dependent and need care for much longer than any other species. While monogamous animal species do cheat, they also act jealous and do everything they can to keep their mate from cheating - fighting off rivals, staying near their mates (which may mean staying faithful), and feeding their mate a lot.
When we look at human societies, they almost always have pair-bonding of some form. In most cases the pairs are monogamous (one man, one woman), but in some societies wealthy and powerful men can have multiple wives or wives plus secondary women (concubines, etc). Multiple husbands is a very rare arrangement. I've never heard of a society where it was the norm for wives to have male concubines or ongoing sexual relationships with a woman.
In almost all societies, women are expected to be sexually faithful to the man. Male fidelity is not always expected, but wives seem to prefer it. The idea that the man should also be monogamous is not new, though, it's been around for at least a couple of thousand years.
What is natural for humans? We don't know. It is clear that it is not against our nature to be monogamous. It looks like we might be designed to want to have our cake and eat it too - a faithful partner and the opportunity to have sex with someone else now and then. We have to use the rational and moral parts of our nature to balance those tendencies.
I'll quickly go over the problem I see here. I feel your husband is a cuckold, essentially you're the only one doing the sleeping around. Not him, were he to also be doing some sleeping around, you'd probably not be feeling as you do now. That one time with your good friend was nothing. In the end, you're the only one who gets to have your cake and eat it too, and no one else.
I am friends with a woman in a true polyamorous lifestyle, like the wonderful comment here, and so I know that can work...though I've known and heard of many that did not survive because one attachment became stronger than the others and the "second class" partners moved on...and I also know much about the "swinging" lifestyle...where the couple participate together with other couples, often in party and group settings. Then I've coached women who were unhappily married and having an affair...the affair attachment was always stronger chemically, the marriage stronger security-wise...and coached women who were working to repair marriages where there had been affairs. And nearly every woman I talk to who is with a man over fifty is experiencing the problems of low libido, low testosterone, and the necessity for drug-enhanced sex. "Open marriage" is something I've never encountered...where the partners are simply free to come and go as they please with or without explanation. It seems on paper like a good option for a relationship that's a good friendship but not a good match sexually -- the total relief of pressure around sex could be so totally wonderful. To me...this is all in the hands of the husband. He can either stay or go. He can find another woman who's a better match for him and leave this marriage...or stay. He can take his time. He can have as much sex as he wants without rationing his wife. It's way better than divorce. But things change. Priorities change. I look forward to following Jenny's story. It's sad simply to have married a person who is not a match for you in such an important way...and yet pretty cool to find such a deep friendship and love. Sex isn't all. It's only a part. I'm all for experimenting in this one life. One thing though... disease. Isn't that the pits? I'm sure her husband figures she's being "safe" - and that if he were to be single again he'd face the same health dilemma...but it's got to weigh on your mind.
I hope you enjoy your celebrity and that it is worth the price your daughter may have to pay because of it. You actions have stripped the protective cloak of anonymity from your her and you are deluding yourself if you think she is or will remain ignorant of your lifestyle in the age of the Internet. Either through her own efforts or those of her friends or enemies she will be exposed to who and what you are. Most children/teenagers absolutely do not want to deal with their parents sexuality. Your daughter is going to have it shoved down her throat. In your decision to go public, you obviously forgot just how vile, cruel, and vicious teenage girls are and can be or how crude and loutish teenage boys are and can be. As the father of a teenage daughter and someone who teaches in a middle school, I tell you to prepare for the living hell that your daughter may have to deal with. Rightly or wrongly, people will make assumptions about your daughter based on your behavior and will act upon them. There are people who will protray you as being promiscuous and will assume that your daughter must be as well resulting in your her having to deal with (probably) unwanted sexual advances.
I have been in a very successful, happy polyamorous relationship myself for the last twenty years. I have had lovers, he has had lovers, we have had lovers, and we are quite happy. Currently he has a girlfriend who is twenty years younger than he is, and ten years younger than I am. I have a live-in boyfriend, a live-out girlfriend, and a live-out boyfriend, and three or four other friends that are intimate friends of about ten to fifteen years' duration.
I think what would surprise people about this is how ordinary and boring it is in practice. Currently it's Sunday night: everyone (which is husband, self, roommates and two teenage sons) are laying out clothes and belongings for tomorrow. The pork chops we're eating tomorrow for dinner are in the fridge defrosting, and I'm warning everyone to get their random junk out of the front room, I'm cleaning it tomorrow. The younger boy is harassing the elder. I can hear raised voices upstairs. (Nothing new.) My husband and one roommate are out on the porch enjoying a last cigarette before bed. I'm finishing up my nightly blogroll, and getting ready to wash my hair. The house will go to bed, by and large, in the next fifteen minutes. The roommates have bedrooms in the basement; the sons have bedrooms upstairs; my husband and I share a bedroom on the groundfloor. This arrangement means that there is always an adult at home, and often more than one, to keep any problems from starting, and keep track of where the teenagers are. We can afford to keep one adult at home as chief cook, housecleaner (though everyone maintains their own bedrooms) and CEO. We have three vehicles which means almost never is there a lack of ability to go somewhere. And we have three fulltime and two part-time incomes.
It has been great for the boys. Their mother cooks with them and corrects their English and writing work; their father has taught them how to take a car engine apart and how to meditate, and my live-out boyfriend has tutored my eldest in calculus for the last two years. My boyfriend plays video games with the younger, our roommate plays chess with the elder. Whoever's nearest feeds the cats, and dishwashing runs on a revolving schedule adjusted around soccer practice. I would no sooner have loud sex of the sort that makes kids worried with my spouse, let alone with any other lover. I generally don't even have sex when the kids are home; they're at school all day, and lots of extracurriculars, and my boyfriend works second shift. (grin) They haven't asked many pointed questions; we all pretty much keep our love lives to ourselves, and apart from the incredibly embarassing on all sides discussion of How Things Work, we just don't talk about sex on a daily basis.
Because it's not about sex. Not really. It's about love. I hope my sons love with honor and truth, as I have always attempted to model before them.
I am amazed at how strong the need to judge and label relationships is in America. We as Americans are very retarded emotionally about relationships. I too grew up with the whole lie about monogamy and forever. The problem is that I saw very few people who actually lived that and "happily ever after". I watched my parents fight, separate, and finally divorce. I watch relationship I thought were rock solid die to lie and cheating. Even men that I admired and thought incapable of infidelity, I found out were having affairs. In fact, monogamy is a giant lie, there are a few people that can be relatively happy with it, but in reality, for most it's a trap. So if sex isn't the thing that defines a relationship, because let's face it, that's what monogamy is all about, defining your relationship by the fact that you have sex with only one person, what defines relationships. I think it's commitment, honesty, emotional intimacy and desire that your partner in life is enabled to explore, learn and grow. If you love someone, and they are not getting their needs met, why would you want to deny them. If I was not getting my needs met, I would not feel loved if I was not allowed to find a way to meet those needs. And yet for one person to meet all my needs, that is a pretty tall order for one person to meet. You see I am like the husband in the story, I wasn't my idea to open up the relationship. But I also could not provide what my partner needed. According to most people in this country, our choices were break up or deny those needs and begin the long road of resentment and unhappiness. Relationships must be dynamic to live, they must have fluidity, respect, honesty and love. It's a journey you are on together, not a destination where you stop and wait to die. I've changed a lot in my relationship, I hope I continue to grow, expand and be challenged by my partner. Growing and learning are not always comfortable, safe things, but I believe that we can handle anything if we hold honesty, intimacy, love and respect always as our guides. Any relationship made of lies is doomed. Any couple who can't tell each other, the worst thing about themselves does not have trust and intimacy. Is it hard? Yes, sometimes more than others. But it's the only true way. People need to evolve and move into the next age. Stop trying to own and restrain each other from exploring what they are capable of. Walk through your fears, because that's really what Monogamy is, fear that your partner will fine something they like better. I don't feel the need currently to explore outside my relationship, but I may one day, when I'm ready or the right person appears. Sometimes I have difficulties with my partners other relationship, and sometimes I'm happy about it, that I don't have to try and fill needs that I cannot or do not wish to. The thing about feelings is that they too are fluid and ever changing, just because I feel something now, I doesn't mean I'll feel the same way in an hour or maybe even five minutes. As for children, I don't think it's appropriate to involve children in one's adult sex life. It's not hiding, it's just being age and developmentally appropriate with the children. Relationships are complex things, they are an on going learning process. Children are just at the very confusing beginning of it all. Just like reading, you start with See Spot Run and you work your way up through more complex stories. You don't start with The Odyssey. As the authors daughter enters her young adult years, mother and daughter may choose to have some general discussions about the nature of relationships and work from there. I so hope that the next generation is smarter about this stuff that my generation has been. I hope they do it better, are happier and it doesn't take them 40 years to figure some of the basics out. I hope they grow, expand, love, and evolve to the greatest extent possible.
I've always been fascinated by the thought of open marriage, and am a firm believer that monogamy isn't necessarily the only way to sustain love in your life. As the author writes, no one person can satisfy you in every way, or be everything to you. I truly believe this.
What worries me is that it seems her husband has been bullied into this arrangement. He would have been perfectly happy to continue along, just the two of them. But it seems as if he's allowing the author to have outside relationships merely because he's afraid of losing her.
For an open relationship to work, both parties should be completely on board.
I agree with the previous poster. I believe somewhere deep down, you don't believe this is such a great and healthy thing, if it's something you hide from your child. My parents never hid sex or sexuality from me. A friend of mine whose mother was gay never hid the fact she was gay. But yet, you refer to it as "debauched behavior", and write an article about how great it is? That makes very little sense to me.
Another comment was talking about following the mammalian example of polygamy. The issue here is that sex between humans is not slightly comparable to that between other animals. That is an ill-composed thought process to make it seem like this should be no big deal. But humans have an entire range of hormones and thoughts not found in mammals that make situations far more complicated than "insert genitalia here".
If it works for others, great. But I don't share this viewpoint, and don't need extramarital sex to make my marriage seem happy or to enjoy the sex that comes with it.
Not only are humans different from animals, but the mammalian example of polygamy is an awful one. One male excludes the others from having access to sex. He fights them off. The females aren't allowed a choice. When the dominant gets old, the others guys move in and kill him and take over his females. Often they kill any babies the females have. Luckily our closest primate relatives are not polygamous, just promiscuous.
Polygamy is typically a very oppressive, undemocratic institution. No matter what you think of the evils of monogamy, it's usually worse. With polygamy, women don't have sexual freedom. The oldest, most powerful men end up having to go for younger and younger women so that they can have more wives. Meanwhile some guys end up without wives. Polygamy in human history has just been about powerful men monopolizing a bunch of women.
In addition to BookMama's reply, this also neglects the number of animals who actually are monogamous and tend to their young. These creatures will sometimes move on to another partner after the first has died, or die themselves out of what may appear as depression (I only say appear as there isn't really any way to prove it, but I believe it to be so).
Creatures can be just as fickle, domineering, or loyal as us humans.
I am wondering if it is something that you must hide from your daughter, is it therefore wrong? I have been taught that if you wonder if it's wrong, the answer is yes.
Contrary to popular belief about humans being sexual creatures just as animals are sexual creatures, humans have much more complex hormones and emotions than any other creature. Human sexuality is beautiful, but it is also meant to be expressed within a certain context.
If sexual activity of animals is not something private or hidden from offspring, then it does not have the same meaning as it does with humans. If we protect our children from seeing sexual activity because it is something private which is meant to be between only two people, though it is not wrong, we wish for them to understand... what? That it is intimate and special, not something which is meant to be shared with just anyone.
Your own pleasure is up to you, to some degree, but if it is all about your pleasure, then how is it special? Eating is pleasurable, sleeping is pleasurable, orgasm is pleasurable, but if you do it too much it is unhealthy and loses at least part of its joy...
Jenny is keeping it secret, though I suspect more for the reasons that BookMama is submitting, but I wonder if, when Jenny feels her daughter is old enough, she will be forthcoming about the nature of her open marriage. I would say at that point that there would be some sort of emotional discrepancy in Jenny if she were to keep this idea hidden when her daughter is of age to understand. Otherwise, the very foundation that Jenny's marriage is built on, of open trust and communication, is ideal to teach to her daughter, and I don't doubt that her daughter is not only learning it from being taught, but also from seeing how her parents conduct themselves.
I'm not 100% sure of what you're saying, but I think most married couples keep their sex lives fairly private from their children. Children don't really want to see anything. They often protect themselves by believing that their parents had sex two or three times to make a baby. It's a developmental thing. As they get older, they figure out more.
So I don't think it's so bad that Jenny B. is keeping the exact nature of her relationship with her girlfriend secret from her daughter. Her daughter sees the girlfriend interacting with her parents and knows Jenny B. cares about her girlfriend. At some point in the future, her daughter will figure out more or J.B. will have to tell her. For now, it seems to be prudent to just leave it alone.
I am wondering if it is something that you must hide from your daughter, is it therefore wrong? I have been taught that if you wonder if it's wrong, the answer is yes.
Contrary to popular belief about humans being sexual creatures just as animals are sexual creatures, humans have much more complex hormones and emotions than any other creature. Human sexuality is beautiful, but it is also meant to be expressed within a certain context.
If sexual activity of animals is not something private or hidden from offspring, then it does not have the same meaning as it does with humans. If we protect our children from seeing sexual activity because it is something private which is meant to be between only two people, though it is not wrong, we wish for them to understand... what? That it is intimate and special, not something which is meant to be shared with just anyone.
Your own pleasure is up to you, to some degree, but if it is all about your pleasure, then how is it special? Eating is pleasurable, sleeping is pleasurable, orgasm is pleasurable, but if you do it too much it is unhealthy and loses at least part of its joy.
I think you are a product of a struggling and flailing society. If it feels good, do it! Surely you will find happiness when you feel good. The problem is, when we practice getting intimate with many people, we prepare for divorce, or disconnected relationships, when we see so many gory bloody movies, we are desensitized to danger, when we have sex at a young age, it becomes less special, and less exciting as time goes on.
This is part of how you have come to the place where you are, where your relationship is constantly strained, your husband constantly doubts how much you truly love him, your lovers see you as nothing but a means to their own personal pleasure, just as you see them, and you probably feel disconnected from yourself and the true person you are meant to be most of the time.
I am wondering if it is something that you must hide from your daughter, is it therefore wrong? I have been taught that if you wonder if it's wrong, the answer is yes.
Contrary to popular belief about humans being sexual creatures just as animals are sexual creatures, humans have much more complex hormones and emotions than any other creature. Human sexuality is beautiful, but it is also meant to be expressed within a certain context.
If sexual activity of animals is not something private or hidden from offspring, then it does not have the same meaning as it does with humans. If we protect our children from seeing sexual activity because it is something private which is meant to be between only two people, though it is not wrong, we wish for them to understand... what? That it is intimate and special, not something which is meant to be shared with just anyone.
Your pleasure is up to you, to some degree, but if it is all about your pleasure, then how is it special? Eating is pleasurable, sleeping is pleasurable, orgasm is pleasurable, but if you do it too much it is unhealthy and loses at least part of its joy.
I think you are a product of a struggling and flailing society. If it feels good, do it! Surely you will find happiness when you feel good. The problem is, when we practice getting intimate with many people, we prepare for divorce, or disconnected relationships, when we see so many gory bloody movies, we are desensitized to danger, when we have sex at a young age, it becomes less special, and less exciting as time goes on.
This is part of how you have come to the place where you are, where your relationship is constantly strained, your husband constantly doubts how much you truly love him, your lovers see you as nothing but a means to their own personal pleasure, just as you see them, and you probably feel disconnected from yourself and the true person you are meant to be most of the time.
The human body was actually made to be in a long-lasting monogamous relationship. The hormone oxytocin (which many may recognize as pitocin... the drug form administered during labor) is released during orgasm, the same hormone released during labor and delivery which causes the uterus to contract and causes the most intense bonding of a person's life... for a mother to bond with her child. This hormone release during orgasm, then, also causes a woman to form an intense bond with whomever is present, be it self (masturbation), fantasy, husband, or lover. But as we practice orgasms over time and with several people, we are conditioned to allow less attachment during the release of this hormone and it becomes less meaningful. However, if used in the proper context- of marriage, oxytocin will cause a great forgiveness of minor flaws and intense attachment.
The lifestyle you're living is very dangerous. I am sure that you use the pill or condoms, or possibly both, but such promiscuity is still risky behavior. There are ever more sexually transmitted diseases that aren't necessarily 100% preventable even with perfect condom use. Many can be transmitted through oral sex or even close calls such as exchange of bodily fluids through indirect contact. It is also very hurtful for you, as a female (sorry guys... you just don't have estrogen, progesterone, and oxytocin in concentrations even close to females) to unconsciously form these bonds and break them over and over again. It becomes emotionally draining and confusing to be in a constant battle with what your body naturally tries to do.
I wish you good luck. I hope you and your husband can find better ways to satisfy one another so that your closeness is undeniable, unquestionable, and truly beautiful and fulfilling.
I am wondering if it is something that you must hide from your daughter, is it therefore wrong? I have been taught that if you wonder if it's wrong, the answer is yes.
Contrary to popular belief about humans being sexual creatures just as animals are sexual creatures, humans have much more complex hormones and emotions than any other creature. Human sexuality is beautiful, but it is also meant to be expressed within a certain context.
If sexual activity of animals is not something private or hidden from offspring, then it does not have the same meaning as it does with humans. If we protect our children from seeing sexual activity because it is something private which is meant to be between only two people, though it is not wrong, we wish for them to understand... what? That it is intimate and special, not something which is meant to be shared with just anyone.
Your own pleasure is up to you, to some degree, but if it is all about your pleasure, then how is it special? Eating is pleasurable, sleeping is pleasurable, orgasm is pleasurable, but if you do it too much it is unhealthy and loses at least part of its joy.
I think you are a product of a struggling and flailing society. If it feels good, do it! Surely you will find happiness when you feel good. The problem is, when we practice getting intimate with many people, we prepare for divorce, or disconnected relationships, when we see so many gory bloody movies, we are desensitized to danger, when we have sex at a young age, it becomes less special, and less exciting as time goes on.
This is part of how you have come to the place where you are, where your relationship is constantly strained, your husband constantly doubts how much you truly love him, your lovers see you as nothing but a means to their own personal pleasure, just as you see them, and you probably feel disconnected from yourself and the true person you are meant to be most of the time.
The human body was actually made to be in a long-lasting monogamous relationship. The hormone oxytocin (which many may recognize as pitocin... the drug form administered during labor) is released during orgasm, the same hormone released during labor and delivery which causes the uterus to contract and causes the most intense bonding of a person's life... for a mother to bond with her child. This hormone release during orgasm, then, also causes a woman to form an intense bond with whomever is present, be it self (masturbation), fantasy, husband, or lover. But as we practice orgasms over time and with several people, we are conditioned to allow less attachment during the release of this hormone and it becomes less meaningful. However, if used in the proper context- of marriage, oxytocin will cause a great forgiveness of minor flaws and intense attachment.
The lifestyle you're living is very dangerous. I am sure that you use the pill or condoms, or possibly both, but such promiscuity is still risky behavior. There are ever more sexually transmitted diseases that aren't necessarily 100% preventable even with perfect condom use. Many can be transmitted through oral sex or even close calls such as exchange of bodily fluids through indirect contact. It is also very hurtful for you, as a female (sorry guys... you just don't have estrogen, progesterone, and oxytocin in concentrations even close to females) to unconsciously form these bonds and break them over and over again. It becomes emotionally draining and confusing to be in a constant battle with what your body naturally tries to do.
I wish you good luck. I hope you and your husband can find better ways to satisfy one another so that your closeness is undeniable, unquestionable, and truly beautiful and fulfilling.
I am wondering if it is something that you must hide from your daughter, is it therefore wrong? I have been taught that if you wonder if it's wrong, the answer is yes.
Contrary to popular belief about humans being sexual creatures just as animals are sexual creatures, humans have much more complex hormones and emotions than any other creature. Human sexuality is beautiful, but it is also meant to be expressed within a certain context.
If sexual activity of animals is not something private or hidden from offspring, then it does not have the same meaning as it does with humans. If we protect our children from seeing sexual activity because it is something private which is meant to be between only two people, though it is not wrong, we wish for them to understand... what? That it is intimate and special, not something which is meant to be shared with just anyone.
Your pleasures is up to you, to some degree, but if it is all about your pleasure, then how is it special? Eating is pleasureable, sleeping is pleasureable, orgasm is pleasureable, but if you do it too much it is unhealthy and loses at least part of its joy.
I think you are a product of a struggling and flailing society. If it feels good, do it! Surely you will find happiness when you feel good. The problem is, when we practice getting intimate with many people, we prepare for divorce, or disconnected relationships, when we see so many gory bloody movies, we are desensitized to danger, when we have sex at a young age, it becomes less special, and less exciting as time goes on.
This is part of how you have come to the place where you are, where your relationship is constantly strained, your husband constantly doubts how much you truly love him, your lovers see you as nothing but a means to their own personal pleasure, just as you see them, and you probably feel disconnected from yourself and the true person you are meant to be most of the time.
The human body was actually made to be in a long-lasting monogamous relationship. The hormone oxytocin (which many may recognize as pitocin... the drug form administered during labor) is released during orgasm, the same hormone released during labor and delivery which causes the uterus to contract and causes the most intense bonding of a person's life... for a mother to bond with her child. This hormone release during orgasm, then, also causes a woman to form an intense bond with whomever is present, be it self (masturbation), fantasy, husband, or lover. But as we practice orgasms over time and with several people, we are conditioned to allow less attachment during the release of this hormone and it becomes less meaningful. However, if used in the proper context- of marriage, oxytocin will cause a great forgiveness of minor flaws and intense attachment.
The lifestyle you're living is very dangerous. I am sure that you use the pill or condoms, or possibly both, but such promiscuity is still risky behavior. There are ever more sexually transmitted diseases that aren't necessarily 100% preventable even with perfect condom use. Many can be transmitted through oral sex or even close calls such as exchange of bodily fluids through indirect contact. It is also very hurtful for you, as a female (sorry guys... you just don't have estrogen, progesterone, and oxytocin in concentrations even close to females) to unconsciously form these bonds and break them over and over again. It becomes emotionally draining and confusing to be in a constant battle with what your body naturally tries to do.
I wish you good luck. I hope you and your husband can find better ways to satisfy one another so that your closeness is undeniable, unquestionable, and truly beautiful and fulfilling.
About Oxytocin....
I'm fairly confident that there is NO supporting evidence that, when "forming a bond" via Oxytocin, "older" bonds are "broken". Uhh, I don't think that's even remotely possible. These emotional bonds aren't physical strings tying one person to another, and there isn't a limited number of bonds that can be formed. One needn't replace another.
If you have a baby and have that super ginormous mother-child bond with it that most mothers do, does it "break" your bond with your husband? No. Of course not. Nor does bonding with a second child lessen or break the bond with the first child, nor the third break the bond with the second.
Orgasming repeatedly with a second partner does not in any way change the fact that you've orgasmed repeatedly with the first partner. There is simply no reason whatsoever that dating a new person MUST mean replacing an existing partner. This is a silly idea, and is not supported chemically or in any other way.
My wife had been having an affair for nearly a year when I found out. I hadn't been the husband that she needed, both emotionally and sexually, and when "He" showed up, with his intensity, she was drawn to him. Their affair changed how I felt about my wife (I now love her more intensely that ever before), and in a way, I am thankful that it happened (I found a new appreciation and love for her).
Now that I know, I face the challenge of being in an open relationship and allowing "them" to continue. "He" really wants it, and I think she does to, but is unsure. She definitely doesn't want to continue if it would hurt me. And they both want to include me some of the time. "He" is the one who sent me the link to this article, saying that he saw parallels in us ("He" and my wife feeling like the author, and me being somewhat like the author's husband).
Right now, I really don't know if I can ever be comfortable with the two of them together. It's still too fresh.
If you're not really comfortable with it, don't go for it. Let your wife know how you feel. I don't believe that people should push themselves to get over jealousy. It's a very natural, very human emotion. You can see it in kids as soon as they are able to communicate it non-verbally. Animals cheat, but they also try to keep their mates faithful.
If you want to be polyamorous, you have to spend a lot of time and energy getting over your jealousy and insecurities and reassuring each other. That's okay if that's what you want, but if it isn't, you shouldn't feel you have to try.
I think it's important to recognize that an affair has a certain intensity and romantic side to it that couples in more real relationships can lose. Everyday life wears away at you. You can work to make your relationship more exciting. But you should recognize that this other guy hasn't had to be part of real life yet and might not be so exciting if he were.
If a man cares about his woman he would never let another man sexually touch her. If he did allow another man to have sex with his girlfriend, much less wife, it would indicate a complete, or partial, disregard for the use of her as a female --- the mechanics of intimacy are far more profound for a female.
If a man allows his shirt or his shoes or his car to be used --- these are just things and can either be disposed of or cleaned. There is no such option for the female that has been with another man. And, presuming that you got her "new", why let some other guy defile her? If you bought a used car, or some poor fellow was so cash-poor as to be satisfied with used clothing ... well, then, they weren't new to begin with, so it's more of a coin-flip whether to allow another man to use these possessions that were less than pristine to begin with.
It is ultimately the decision of the two people. But, there are other things that can be done if one's sex drive has diminished while the sex drive of the other person remains relatively --- passionate. As long a children are not involved in such behavior, the major worries should be disease and jealousy ... and perhaps the scandalous talk that will flow from the mouth of friend and family member alike.
The natural order of things being one man to a multiple of females allowed for ancestral tribes to grow quickly, with the males that possessed intelligence and power fueling the ultimate outcome of our world culture. But with the advent of females becoming more possessive the practices has been discouraged by most modern cultures. But, biology can not be denied. Any man, given the opportunity, will have sex with a female whether she is his by agreement of mind and emotion, or agreement of price.
The question here is not: if your female whores around, would you want her back?
The answer being: NO.
The question is: because you want to have sex with another female, for whatever reason, would you allow your female to have sex with another man just to take the guilt off of you? Well, only if she is emotionally disposable and your attachment to her is purely one of convenience. Otherwise, do it and don't get caught.
The same thought process would deny a woman access to ANY sort of personal growth, such as college, or friends. Things that would enhance HER life as an individual. How can a man truly say he wants her to grow as a person yet deny her access to aspects of that same growth? No your train of thought is more deeply rooted in Possessiveness rather than true love. She's MINE, that's MINE. You can't touch. Further, she has FAR more value than "use as a female". She's not an object. You also seem to attach value as a person to some sort of virginity test, as in "pristine" quality. It's the quality of the individual person, not their "use" value. If a man Whored around does that make HIM less than pristine in your mind? You've confused the value of a person with something far less admirable.
Since when did marrying a person make them your property. I read these comments, "get in or get out, honesty is best ", etc.. I have been married for nearly 20 years, about 15 years ago my partner lost interest, decided that corpse sex was the best kind of sex, while watching TV at the same time. In every other way we get along, we are great parents to 3 children. I started an affair 4 years ago and have never been happier, my partner does not have to endure corpse sex. Reading people's comments, I am a scoundrel, a cheat in fact I have done the honorable thing, held my marriage together for the sake of the kids, been discreet about my affair .
It is the ones that bail when they first find out their partner has strayed that I can't abide.
"But its all about trust.".. no its all about what is good for the kids and trying to keep sane and balanced, while recognizing people change and all the marriage counselling is not going to change it.
The real frauds are the ones who pretend they have rediscovered passion... it does not happen in the real world only on TV and in Agony Aunt columns.
Your marriage isn't the same as the one Jenny has described. She and her husband actively communicate with each other about what they like and dislike about the marriage. She is forthcoming with information that he asks for, and when she isn't and he finds out it mars the trust they had in each other until they discuss it and work it out, again reaching that same level of trust and security in each other. At the same time, they are both very conscious of the affect this could have on their child who it seems is probably not ready for this aspect of inter-personal relationships.
Her husband supports her emotionally in this endeavor, and he brings up when he has mixed or bad feelings about it. More marriages should have this level of communication. Added to this, it wasn't brought about by his denying her sex or no longer satisfying her...she understood that she had a hunger bigger than what he can sate, and learned how devastating it was to go behind his back. True, he could have chosen to end the marriage because it may have been something he couldn't go along with, but he chose to accept it. The level of trust and communication they now share to keep their marriage happy and her other lovers in proper context has enriched their marriage, but that was brought about by both of them agreeing to the arrangement and continuing to discuss it and allow it to evolve as their marriage evolves.
I find no fault or part to be concerned with on this. While I recognized that polyamory is not for me, and its not due out of some possesive nature, I don't see it as some great sin or an act of betrayal. For this type of marriage there needs to be too great a level of trust and communication by both partners to remain healthy and happy.
If your marriage works the way it is and everyone is happy about it then more power to you. The only advice I give to others in regards to your approach is that everything may backfire on you because you are going behind your wife's back on it. It is a very fundamental difference between your marriage and Jenny's marriage.
I admire the openness you share in your marriage. But personally I think I would find it very difficult to be that open...I am a bit more possessive in my relationships.
I admire the openness you share in your marriage. But personally I think I would find it very difficult to be that open...I am a bit more possessive in my relationships.
There are always comments about how all men want to do is sow their seed. The other side of that coin is that women want the best mate for their child. Consider this biological situation: A room with 10 people - 1 man and 9 women. Do you think in one "day" the man could impregnate all 9 women? Probably not. Consider the converse: 1 woman and 9 men. Could the woman satisfy all 9 men? Aside from mental blocks, probably yes. I know that around the time my wife is ovulating, 9 would be possible (not b/c we have tried, just from my assessment of her horniness level). B/c a woman's body has some say on which sperm fertilize her egg (do a search on sperm competition), in the second scenario, she has the ability to choose the "best" sperm for her yet to be born child. Sperm competition is not a widely accepted theory. But go back to my earlier scenario. Ask yourself this: During human development, being a woman and having access to multiple partners, wouldn't it help improve the chances of her offspring's survival.
You're incorrect. One man can, quite easily, impregnate more than one woman during a single day.
dnt_1640 didn't say "more than one".
He said, "Do you think in one "day" the man could impregnate all 9 women?"
I think by this he meant exactly what he said. To break it down, "Do you think that one single man could successfully complete coitus and with nine individual women and successfully impregnate all nine of them in one single day?"
I've had some pretty excellent marathon sex, but I've NEVER had one single man that was able to successfully ejaculate NINE TIMES in one single day.
I myself was almost involved in a married couple, 11 years married 16 years together no children. I actually knew them for about a year, little did I know I was going through not only the beginnings of a friendship but also a very long "interviewing process". As I mentioned I was "almost" for many reasons which would take quite a long post and that's not what I'm here for.
Let me just tell you, their relationship was truly "open" nothing was hidden and neither partner was left at home alone at night wondering if either one was lurking bars for a one or two night stand. It was a very mutual endeavor that involved much discussion. Seemed like an awful lot of mind work to me!
I'm just going to say it seems like you are openly cheating, that is a huge difference between what you are claiming to have. Open marriages can be a very nice supplement to a healthy marriage and not to many people can take on the challenges to gain the rewards and last
One of the interesting things about Jenny's story is that she actually is describing two different kinds of open relationships. In the beginning, she and her husband are basically monogamous. They have sex with other people, but their commitment is too each other. Now she is in a polygamous relationship - she has a husband and a girlfriend. It isn't exactly equal (her girlfriend lives somewhere else and Jenny is married to her husband and has a kid with him), but they she loves both of them. She is no longer monogamous in any real sense.
I'm just glad that I'm not the only one who feels the way I, and you feel about marriage. I just don't believe that humans were designed to be monogamous. I love my husband dearly; we are partners in life, however we both are very aware of our sexual needs. Above all, he is my lover, my friend and my confidant. I would never, and have never been dishonest with him about how I feel. I’m sure you feel the same way about your husband.
Thanks,
Navi
Thanks for the story Jenny, it was very interesting to say the least. And it helps to convey the concept of an open marriage. At first I never would have agreed to open relationships. But after reading alot of information and books about this, it does make sense. I am married now to my husband who I have been with for about 12 years. Last year, my husband had started talking about the whole open marriage concept. And yes i agree it would take total and complete trust, honesty and respect for one another. We both love each other so much. We both have never had an affair with anyone while we were together, but I think that to be totally free and fully happy we need to build connections with other people. This could mean for love, sex, friendship or whatever, but having the ability and freedom to experience these things would be so wonderful. The communication and understanding a couple must endour would have to be so strong. Just the thought of having such respect, understanding, trust, honesty and communcation with each other would be amazing and wonderful in itself. My husband and I still are in a monogomous marriage but have talked about an open marriage. By all means, i know it would not be easy to have an open marriage, there are just more factors to consider, but it would probably result in a more enlightened and fulfulling marriage at the end.
Humans and penguins are the only two animals that participate in monogamy. It's still programed into every male's brain (even humans and penguins) to "spread their seed." The point is to get as many females pregnant as possible to continue and preserve their kind.
That being said, my boyfriend and I have talked about having an open relationship, not neccisarly because we wanted one, it was just to make sure we were on the same page and wanting the same things. He expressed to me that he would be hurt if we had an open relationship. He says he doesn't want to be intimate, passionate, sexual with anyone but me. And I feel the same about him. My thoughts may change one day, nothing is set in stone; as of right now I love my boyfriend, he satisfies me more than anyone ever has and more than I could imagine and I don't want anyone else. I have had other lovers in the past, but I can not see myself with other lovers than my now partner.
I feel so bad for your husband. I mean while your are out of town on business and having encounters when you are away on your sex vacations when you are out with one of your steady lovers when you are out on the town doing one night stands with men and women who is there for your husband to hold and talk to , to have intimacy with, who is there for your daughter?? surely not her mother...
Also have you ever wondered how your husband must feel inside when he does get to have sex with you? Dont you realize he must question whether he can please you like yours studs.(regardless of what you say to him) Ever ask yourself honestly why he dosnt fool around?
And how dishonest were you really, how convienient that you were able to "convince" him to join this lifestyle with your very close friend who by the way was so very safe to have join your bed as she wasnt a threat to you.
I ran across this story that reminded me of you, while its fiction it smacks of reality...
I feel open marriage isn't for me, however I have some admiration for those that practice it, in good health. To be with a person you love and at the same time never be denied the right to explore life. To have the thrill of newness everytime you meet someone. Heart pounding, dry mouth-can't speak, adrenilin rush that it gives all of us. Hell, just the mystery of our life unfolding little by little, never having a set outcome. Not the same ol' same ol', nothing changes, souls starving for more, feeling we all get. If it were the norm to have the best of both worlds......... I'm part of the cookie cutter era, believe you should only be with one person:)
Unfortunately as society goes, "cookie cutter" is the way to go. You got the one for your house. The one for your car. The one for the kids and the dog. Don't forget the picket fence. Last but not least, the one for your marriage. And you can buy them all at your local Wal-Mart or Bed Bath & Beyond.
We're like robots, programmed by hundreds of years of civil statutes and traditions. Nobody dares stray too far from what is deemed "appropriate" or "normal". For if they do, and they sometimes do, they are immediately outcast from the social folds and labeled accordingly. "Whores", "cheats", and "weirdos". All comedy aside though, I would like to speak my mind on a couple of issues.
I was particularly surprised at the harshness some of the other women have displayed within their comments to Jenny's article. Then again, I really shouldn't be surprised. As a man, I don't have quite the same mindset as a woman, but for the most part, I would like to think that I have a decent understanding of how the other sex thinks. Just goes to show you how far off I am.
My hat is off to you, Jenny. It takes balls to put this out in front of everybody. You have people who praise you, people who criticize you, and people who just have no clue as to how to respond to your chosen lifestyle. For the most part, I suppose it is easy to just ignore the "haters", and smile a little at the gratification that they'll never really "get" what you're about. The fact is, even if we never heard a peep out of the "less than understanding", I honestly believe that they'd still be out there... brooding over how somebody else chooses to live their life. Oh, what a hilarious notion! I don't see as to why people would waste their time with such hateful feelings, when they can choose to spend that time towards loving somebody close to them. Or themselves, even.
Aside from all of that, recently my wife and I began the discussion of having an open marriage. Right now we are still in the initial stages of talks. We've layed out our rules, and have been surfing the internet and libraries for as much information as possible. This isn't something that we just want to jump into. To help us, I created a blog (the link is on my profile), where we are basically laying out our process. From start to finish. Even if we don't go through with it, I think it would help others who are interested in the path. It's just something that I am hoping, people will respond to amicably, or who can help point us in the right direction.
Over the course, when we have searched different key terms and whatnot, I have found time and time again, articles written by yourself, and I would just like to tell you that what you are putting out there really does make sense. It helps, honestly. I believe it guides us to paint a better picture of our relationship. To apply the focus that we need, and sort through our feelings towards each other and our marriage.
Well you seem to really have an open marriage, I somehow find it hard to understand it but it's your decision and I won't argue that. I personally believe that it takes a lot of strength from both partner to handle an open marriage. Why did you get married after all? Are you both satisfied and comfortable with decision decision? On the other hand I think this may be a solution, you don't get tempted to divorce because you are free to express yourself confident that your partner understands it.
Kallie, marriage family counseling
IVE BEEN TALKING THIS GUY ONLINE AND HE TOLD ME HIM AND HIS WIFE HAD AND OPEN MARRAGE SO I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT WAS ABOUT .AFTER READING THIS STROY IT MAKE SENDSE TO .IF IT HELP THE MARRAGE THEN GO FOR IT .AND I WOULD NOT CARE WHAT [PEOPLE THOUTH ABOUT THAT .THAT IS BEWETTEN TWO PEOLPE
This might piss off a lot of people but the way I see it we are animals. Okay highly developed animals with a range of emotions, consciousness and awareness.
We have our desires but society has dumped so much stufff onto us that we do crazy things like get married. In the animal kigdom non get married even though plenty choose monogomy. There is so much taboo about sex that people often never find out who they are, never have a fullfilling sex life and never f**k all the people they really want to because of "social stigma". Those that do are labelled.
As for myself I'm heterosexual - I've had an encounter with my own sex but just know it's not my cup of tea but as for men - well I meet plenty that I'm attracted to and they to me - even if it is just on a sexual level. I mean if you don't know someone but feel attracted to them then it's the sex thing calling out. You may then find they are really useless in bed and you have nothing to talk about anyway so bye bye.
I feel it's the institution of marriage that causes the problem for people that aren't cut out for a monogomous relationship. I know so many couples that whine to me about their partners infedility. And they do not want an open marriage or a threesome. These people who have those partners should leave them immediatly because you can't expect another person to change. You can only change yourself. You just have to realise that people get hurt becaue they have emotions. They can't help it.
I just can't see oen marriages working out unless both partners make that agreement before they get married and then be sure not to show unhappiness after ward about the situation.
yOU GOT It. I just found out my wife is having an affair meeting this guy at work a few days a week at his place he is single, since june2008. I asked her to stop or divorce she asked if she could continue the same that she likes both of us. If I would consider an open marriage. And now I'm actually saying what is marriage anyway who came up with it, what does it mean. I'm not particularly religious or anything so why do I have to follow this pact this contract. I am a very sexual being always have been. Of course the only problem I had was that she already had some one or has been having this guy since last year lying to me about it, and I have nobody. Now I just have to find that someone that I can explore a new experience with. SOMEBODY OPEN2IT.
I totally agree with what you said about society. It is almost to the point that we don't get to decide what we want to do society decides for us.
And yes we are animals and sometimes the call of the wild is just that, and it does not like being ignored.
is lust the topic of our enjoyment? I like to be private with my mate and have the freedom of fantasy.
I find myself driven by the emotion of jealousy. Should a woman be free in her talk during the buildup of
her orgasm? I love it when she claims her desires and is free with her expressions.
Am I saying the right things? Are there women who like doing this with their sexual partner?
Jenny's book is an easy read, and gives a lot of information about the history of their open marriage.
I see it like this: you can draw a line and put monoamory on one side, and polyamory on the other side. The open relationship falls on the line. People love on an endpoint or somewhere on the line. We've been used to one man, one woman, married, living in a house, having kids, no one else lives with them.
If you want to be open, do it because you agree (even if one you stays monoamorous, and the other is poly), you have a great relationship, you have great communication skills, you share a vision, and you are flexible and willing to support each other through your life. It is so important to have partners who support each other and communicate every step of the way. xo
I'm there with Lisa. I had a very happy marriage with an extremely loving husband. But I wanted to have my cake and eat it too, so I convinced my husband towards an open marriage. He didn't want to do it at first but reluctantly gave in. He fell in love with one of his partners (and she was younger!) and ran off with her. Not a day goes by that I don't look upon my choice with regret or compare myself to the girl he's left me for. (Was it sex, her body or youth?) I finally realize how my husband must have felt when I forced this idea on him.
i think open marriages are a cop-out. It's selfish & an un-willingness & un-wantingness to learn how to learn and deal with the realities of being in a relationship and compromise. hell, i'd like to BE MARRIED & ACT SINGLE too so that I don't have to deal with "the parts of marriage that don't work for me". If you have a partner that is willing to go along with an open marriage out of his love for you, you either found your soulmate or your doormat. open marriages are a time-bomb & gamble that i'm not convinced works if you have a truly "healthy marital relationship". It keeps you from having to learn to deal with each other. It's selfish & a Cop-out.
"cheated' and "Lisa" comments prove the fallacy "open marriage" advocates who state that the chances of their spouse cheating are greatly reduced because there is honesty between them. Honesty is not enough for when a couple hit a low point in their marriage (like it happens in all marriages), the chances of developing an emotional connection and reliance to a lover, are too great. And just like in regular marriages, honesty becomes the first casualty.
"Sex without love does not mean it’s dirty or animalistic, if all people involved are adult about it."
Actually, sex without love is, by definition, animalistic. Animals lack the higher order functioning humans possess that would allow them to associate sex with love. In essence, animals engage in sex because of nature. The ability to "make love" is unique to humans. Get it straight...
"I have had sex with friends and even watched 3 men male love to one of my girlfriends, it was great to watch her enjoy it so much. I have had sex buddies who I’m still friends with today and it’s a very healthy feeling."
So, what you're saying is that you practice promiscuity while not even discriminating between friends, lovers, and strangers. And your friend was basically gangbanged by 3 other men. I'm sorry, but I fail to see the appeal of both your lifestyles. You and your friend are, dare I say, whores. I suppose assigning the term "whore" is in the eye of the beholder. So, for the sake of argument, let us turn to the mere definition of "whore." According to dictionary.com, merrian-webster, and a variety of other online dictionaries, a "whore is a woman who engages in promiscuous sexual intercourse." Another definition of a whore is "a woman who engages in sexual acts for money (aka prostitute). I won't assume you've done the latter, though I wouldn't be surprised if you have. All in all, both you and Jenny, by all means, are whores and therefore, I don't find it surprising that you defend her character and her marriage.
"The answer is self respect. If you respect yourself, you will make the right choices in sleeping with the right partner…and there’s nothing dirty about that."
I wish I could see where being a promiscuous whore doesn't clash with your self-proclaimed self-respect. Call me close-minded. I just can't see how a woman can have such high self-respect for herself after sleeping with one strange man after another while she leaves an adoring husband at home to care for their daughter. I myself find I have no respect for you or Jenny and I feel I'm not alone in this. I'm glad you can find respect for yourself though because you live in your own skin and you look at yourself in the mirror every day. My opinion of you or Jenny doesn't matter though I own the right to express it.
"I believe that his love is bigger than the love we have been lucky enough to experience."
That I won't argue. I could only fathom that the man I marry would love me so much to agree to such a marriage if I proposed it. However, I wonder how lucky HE is to experience the love, respect, and honesty that Jenny has given him. In my opinion, she doesn't give him the same love she has been lucky to receive from him. He deserves much more...
"Possessing a person sexually, emotionally or otherwise is not love. Love is freedom."
The hilarity and absurdity of this sentence cannot be ignored.
"I’d rather have an open marriage than to have a husband cheat on me."
Wow, I didn't know those were my only options: either be in an open marriage or have my husband cheat on me. Can I get Option C where I'm in a closed marriage with a husband that doesn't cheat?? Do those even exist anymore? I guess not so my only option is to be cheated on with or without my knowledge. Hmmm... tough decision.... so sad some people think that's what marriage has come to -->
"I’d rather have an open marriage than to have a husband cheat on me."
Thank you for your honesty. Can't wait for the book to come out! I'd rather have an open marriage than to have a husband cheat on me. People's need change over time. Can we really get all of our needs met by one person over a lifetime?
It is really strange to me how many people respond to the concept of an open marriage with, "Then why be married?" Do you really think that sex rights are the hallmark of marriage? If you do, does that mean your marriage ends when and if you stop having sex w/ your spouse? If so, there are a hell of a lot more single elderly folks than I was aware of *lol* To me, marriage is a commitment to share your life with someone. Beyond that loose definition, all marriages differ. Some are single-income. Some are religious. Some include child-rearing. Some entail a shared bank account or three. But, let's face it folks, NONE of these things are included in every marriage. It's up to the people involved to clearly define what marriage means to them. They are not responsible for making the world at large comfortable with that definition--they only owe it to each other.
It is noted again and again that the author has painted a picture of her husband being uncomfortable with having an open marriage. I'm not sure of this is true and neither are you. You only know what SHE has said and it's entirely possible that she worries about it more than he does. I've seen that often. Do you know what else I've seen often? I've seen one parter be uneasy about the neighborhood they live in while the other partner wants to stay. I've seen one partner homeschool while the other frets about what that will mean come college time. I've seen one partner spend way more money than the other is comfortable with. I've seen one partner worry that their spouse's opposite-sex best friend will become a little TOO dear...
I could keep going but the point is, I've never seen both partners at exactly the same place over all major issues. I've seen apathy but that is not the same thing. If the uncomfortable partner agrees to the terms, it is up to that partner to deal with their emotions or ask for renegotiation.
Marriage IS all about responsibility and maturity. But that does not mean living the way other people tell you to. It means facing your wants and needs and your partners wants and needs and finding some semi-comfortable middle ground. I'm sure many of you on here have kids and would not appreciate those outside your family dictating to you how you should raise them. So, why is it you feel it's ok to tell this woman how she should handle her marriage?
My ex-husband and I also had an open marriage because like Jenny Block, I also wanted more sexual variety in my life. My husband was very reluctant in the beginning but eventually agreed to it because he loved and did not want to lose me. My sex life was fantastic because I had multiple lovers and a husband that I adored. Life could not get any better for me that is until one day everything came crashing and burning around me. My husband had fallen in love with his lover, left me without saying a word and shortly filed for divorce. To say that I was devastated is an understatement that words can never do justice to it. I lost the love of my life, the man I wanted to have children and grow old with.
I got my wish and like the old "Be careful what you wish for..." I am realizing that the price of it was a very high one. I wish I had known then what I know now. Sigh!
On Open Marriage
My only exposure to open marriage is the period of time between when I found out my ex-wife was having an affair and the time that we separated. It was short.
She told me that she wanted more and she couldn't not sleep with other men. She said she wanted to open our relationship. Two months later, she wanted a divorce and was shortly moving in with a guy from her office. So much for open.
Since then, I have tried to learn more about polyamory and be objective about it. Some things I have noted:
1) most often, one member of the couple is gung-ho about it, the other merely accepting. Ms. Block seems to fit that pattern.
2) quite often, people who are most interested in the openness aspect are also more narcissistic.
3) what about the kids? Quite often, open marriage is offered as a way to overcome limits in marriage, but what about raising children? Children need a stable homelife, and most of the accounts I have read about open marriages are between people who have no children or are now empty-nesters.
I wonder what would happen if Mr. Block decided to try having sex with men and found that more to his liking than sex with Ms. Block? Would she feel threatened?
At what point does one's allegiance to self and self-desires trump one's commitment to another?
I don't know if open marriages work, but I've read a lot of books about it, read magazine articles and I'm waiting to read one account where it seems that both members in the couple share equally and seem to want the openness equally.
well now i have gone and done it..fell in love with an escort?? yup im smitten and feel like a teenager all over again first love you know cant eat cant relax- goddamn how this happen to me? Man we shared emails and telephone numbers ..but you know Im just another 350 to her I think..anyway, just when you think its just sex...beware of the girl next door type- get you everytime
I haven't read the comments, just the article, but here's my take on thing...
Another human being can never be a possession. You can't own them the way you own a car. You don't have control over them. The problem is that people have trouble thinking outside the box of their culture. In Australia marriage is defined as a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, or something to that effect. How many possibilities does that exclude?
Isn't open marriage a nice way of saying "hey, you're not good enough at giving me what I what. I need to look elsewhere for it?" I imagine most open marriages start because of one or many affairs while the couple was trying to be monogamous. Then, after the affair comes to light, the betrayed spouse either leaves or just accepts that his/her spouse is a major cheater. It seems that spouse eventually develops a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality so that they don't lose the spouse they love. It seems Jenny's husband accepts her whorish ways as long as she's honest because he loves her. Otherwise, wouldn't he also take advantage of this open marriage? What man who is given permission to seek sexual pleasure away from his wife wouldn't do it if he desired to? None. So, you can see he doesn't WANT to be other women. In essence, he's a monogamous man trapped in a marriage with a promiscuous woman whom he loves. He's willing to accept her constant philandering because he doesn't want to lose her. And that fact that she continues to live the way she does, speaks volumes about her character. She may believe she respects herself and her husband and her marriage, but all I see is a horny, SELFISH woman that doesn't care about her husband's feelings. Now, if both her and her husband equally enjoyed this open marriage, then I suppose there'd be no problem since BOTH agree on and partake in the lifestyle. I truly believe she is married to an INCREDIBLE man that she DOES NOT deserve. He loves her enough to give her what she needs even though it hurts him. She should love HIM enough to stop her behavior or leave him so he can find someone who truly loves him and desires no other. This marriage is so sad and I hope these types of marriages are few and far between. I would love to read an article or read about her husband's perspective. Poor guy... Jenny, stop f-ing around with strange men and go home to your husband and daughter. You're old already...grow up.
Krista
I have a very distinct feeling that you will have NO problem finding the man of your dreams. I can see it now...
"Hey! What do you say we get married?? You can have sex with all the women you want because I don't own you. And I will have sex with many, many men as well because you don't own me. Basically, we'll be like two horny teenagers that share a house and a little piece of paper forever! That sounds good, right??"
"Heck yea it does! You mean I get to sleep with tons of women forever? I can have my cake and eat it, too?! Why, marriage is easy!"
Yea, if I were you, I wouldn't fret. I don't think it'll be that hard to find a man who will want a wife that gives him permission to have all the sex he wants while he's married.
Sex, I mean marriage, sure is grand. I can't wait to meet a girl like you one day and make her my wife. Then, I'll never have to grow up! It'll be like college forever. YEA!
I'm sorry, I just read these other comments and I have to defend this woman. I happen to know a couple who live this way and they are very happy (in fact the happiest couple I know, and I know a lot of people). Also I'm really starting to believe that this will be the way for me too. Sex without love does not mean it's dirty or animalistic, if all people involved are adult about it. I have had sex with friends and even watched 3 men male love to one of my girlfriends, it was great to watch her enjoy it so much. I have had sex buddies who I'm still friends with today and it's a very healthy feeling.
The answer is self respect. If you respect yourself, you will make the right choices in sleeping with the right partner...and there's nothing dirty about that. Honesty as one other person said is another important ingredient of course.
About Jenny's husband. I believe that his love is bigger than the love we have been lucky enough to experience. Possessing a person sexually, emotionally or otherwise is not love. Love is freedom.
Jen...you go girl!!
Krista
This is an excellent, honest and loving article about a woman who in my opinion is secure enough and respects herself enough to follow what she needs. Well done, first for finding such a wonderful husband and second for have the courage to follow your hearts/body's desires. I hope to one day be in an open and respectful marriage myself.
Krista
Krista-
Thank you so much for your kind and generous words. Your intelligence and understanding are very much appreciated. I wish you all of the best, and I feel sure that one day you too will find the kind of love and happiness I am lucky enough to have. I hope honesty, openness, intuition, and self-respect will continue to be your guides.
With Warm Regards,
Jenny Block
Author of "Open: Love, Sex, and Life in an Open Marriage"
www.jennyonthepage.com
wow!
so many closed minds,,so few words to use to try to open them up.
i am exploring an open marriage, partly out of desperation...we have tried the closed option, and i think an open relationship might work for us.
we are apart for several months due to canadian regs, so being open might relieve the stress of being apart and wondering if other is being "faithfull"!
we have had "trust " issues and we have put enormous pressure to bear..have split up a few tims for short period of time...
now we are looking at what boundaries we need to use..partners need to be healthy..disese free..how do you insure that this is true?
partners need to know it is "just sex"..no potential spouses need apply!
definetly NO EX'S! ever!..this should be a deal breaker!
And if we agree, what are the consequences for deal breaking behavior?
WHAT ELSE CAN ANYONE SUGGEST?
i know we will not last for long unless we do something..we have been married for 2 years/together 3 ...i love her and i think she loves me she says she does...(although she may not be in love with me...lol)
she has given me permission to pursue sexual encounters while we are apart..im in florida for a few months each year..seems like i/we should make it official and agree to ground rules that will work for us both!
any advise?
I'd just like to add something that my husband Baron said regarding open marriages like Jenny Bloc's.
Jenny may be deluding herself that her husband is ok with this arrangement when in reality the opposite is true. Despite her comments that she and her husband are totally honest with each other, this may not be enough to stop the emotional bleeding her husband may be experiencing because of it. She fails to realize that because of her open affairs, her husband is in more danger of falling in love with another woman and divorcing her, than she is with another man. If this happens, then it will be she who will regret ever opening the door to the so called "open marriage".
i would like to say THANK YOU to jenny for posting such a joyous and honest article. i have spent many years in open relationships where myself and my partner had other lovers --- he had 'sex' with them, i had kisses --- and these were the healthiest and most honest love partnerships i have experienced. yes i felt hurt when he had sex with other women, no it was not the end of the world.
i don't buy into the philosophy that another beautiful woman is 'the enemy', so why should i be jealous or threatened if my man discovers or enjoys another beautiful woman? that makes him stronger to experience himself thru the eyes of another human being.
people are in general quite fearful of the concept of allowing their partner to just "be".... somehow it is deemed appropriate for couples to 'own' their partners' bodies. movies and magazines solicit this opinion, and we as a society accept it.
it is no more appropriate to tell your partner who they can be attracted to than what they can wear or what they can eat. you can tell your partner that you care, but ultimately it is their bodies, their choices, and their lives. an honest love partnership is based in FRIENDSHIP --- would you tell your FRIENDS how to dress, who to kiss, what to drink?
i am married to a man who is brave enough to want an open relationship. we will experience ups and downs as a result. i thoroughly enjoy learning about what he likes in other women, becasue this allows me to KNOW WHO HE IS, not who he feels he should be.
all the nay sayers who think open relationships don't work are simply afraid to get to know who their partners really are, and to know that their connection to their partner is stable enough to allow each other to grow in new ways and laugh and learn along the way.
I thought your article was written very nicely. I have a son and daughter-in-law that are into this swinging thing. Although I am not comfortable with this kind of life style I know in my heart that each person must travel their own road and find their own destiny. Good Luck!
I'm an open-minded individual, but I can't help but think this person's book is a several-hundred page attempt at justifying her behavior. Fact of the matter is that she consistently says this open marriage is what "we" need, yet - save for the encounter with their friend - her husband doesn't appear to have any desire to seek sexual gratification outside of his marriage.
"We" need this? Sorry Jenny, but you're being intellectually dishonest with your readers - and most of all, yourself. This is what YOU need.
you really have deceived youself - the one thing that you keep repeating is the hurt that you see in you husband - yet you continue - marriage is a covenant between two people and yes lady that includes your sex life - you are free to live you life however you choose just don't justify the crap - this is not a victimless crime read you bible - it is called ADULTRY no matter how you slice it -
I and my husband have recently been exploring opening our marriage as well. It has been a gradual process over the 4 years we have been married and continues to evolve as time goes on. I applaud you on your honesty not only with your husband, but with the world. I wish there were more of an example to look at, but in some ways by not having one it makes us more honest and communicative about what WE want. Thanks for making the topic one I can talk about with others too.
"open marriage" is a sucker's bet for men and here's why:
1. In our present society, men are more willing than women to engage in sex with no possibility of future commitment.
2. Sex between a third party and one of the partners in an open relationship is presumptively sex of this sort.
3. Ergo, barring deception about one's relationship status, the woman in an open relationship will have more opportunities for more sex with more partners than the man.
4. In our present society, it's easier for women to obtain sex in general, which exacerbates the imbalance in the previous point.
This simple deduction, and the imbalance of power it implies, should should give pause to any honest man considering an open relationship. Second, and conversely, it reveals that there's some truth to the claim of some feminists that monogamy has a patriarchal bias. Women lose out on more sex partners in a monogamous relationship than men do.(Of course, other factors can compensate, so monogamy isn't an entirely losing proposition for women. For example, monogamy, or at least the appearance thereof, reduces doubt as to the biological fatherhood of children, which leads to better paternal care. Etc.)
Krista,
"I hope to one day be in an open and respectful marriage myself."
I don't think you'll have any trouble finding a man who will want to marry you some day. I can see it now,
"hey, what do you say we get married?? You can sleep with all the women you want because I will never own you. Also, I will sleep with all the men I want because you don't own me. Basically, we're like to single people who share a house and a piece of paper. What do you say?"
"Sure! I can have sex with all the women I want forever? I can have my cake and eat it too?? Why marriage is easy!"
I think you'll have no problem finding what you want.
I can't help but feel sorry for this author and for the rest in these people in open marriages. If all you want is to have sex like a bunch of animals, why not just be single? She says she's married because she likes to hear "honey, I'm home." That is the worst excuse I've heard for being married. She continues to open her legs everywhere she goes and acknowledges that at times, her lifestyle makes her husband sad. He himself does not take part in this polygamous lifestyle. I can't help but see a selfish person who wants to indulge every sexual whim. This is fine to a person unrestrained, but a marriage SHOULD be different. Marriage is about a making a vow to share a life with one another in front of GOD. It is so sad to see this promiscuity brought into the sanctity of marriage. Do humans really lack the willpower to resist temptation and stay loyal to one person? If you can't, marriage is not for you. People like the author should have never been married and feel they can justify their inner whore with this "open marriage" nonsense. Just be single! There's no need to involve a marriage and children just because you can't control yourself.
I'm sorry, but when did all of a sudden NOT wanting your significant other to have sex with other people become a bad thing??
"Possessing a person sexually, emotionally or otherwise is not love."
"all the nay sayers who think open relationships don’t work are simply afraid to get to know who their partners really are."
Because I believe in the sanctity of marriage and the vow to be faithful, this means I am trying to OWN and not let my partner be who he really is?? That's ridiculous!
Face it, you pro-open-marriage folk are just as judgmental as those denouncing open-marriages. Just as you don't want to be judged for your hippie lifestyle, you shouldn't judge those that like it traditional.
Did it ever occur to you that some people in monogamous relationships are mature enough to make a sexual commitment to someone else for life? Did it ever occur to you that some of the happiest couples in the world have only had sex with each other?? I'm sure this must be an IMPOSSIBLE thought since it is everyone's nature to want to have promiscuous sex, right?
A monogamous marriage is NOT about ownership. It is about a commitment to each other for LIFE that both parties WILLINGLY make in front of God, family, and friends. If you can't handle never having sex with more than one person for the rest of your life, don't get married or find someone else like you.
In NO way should wanting a monogamous relationship EVER be a bad thing. It should NEVER be a bad thing to expect one's partner to be faithful if they have sworn to you they always will be. I don't OWN my husband sexually. He willingly made a COMMITMENT to me to always be faithful. If he ever wants to explore, he can do it without me. This DOES not make me close-minded or afraid of sexuality (mine or his) in any way. This is about a standard I have set for myself and will never settle for less. I am an incredible person deserving of being a man's one and only. And if I have found a man who wants me to be his one and only, WHY SHOULD THAT BE CLOSE-MINDED AND UNACCEPTABLE?!
For those that are anti-monogamous, practice what you preach and don't judge those that WANT and CAN be with only one person. Just because they can do it, and you cannot, does not make them evil, prude, traditional, etc...
Have an "OPEN" mind yourself, will ya?
I think the key within this marriage should be the same within any marriage -open or not- and that's honesty and communication. Regardless of how you feel about her lifestyle, she's hit the nail on the head when it comes to happiness in her marriage. Their marriage works because they're open and honest with each other.
As much as I think swinging can be an augmentation of marriage. Open marriage especially one where bisexuality is such an intrinsic part I'm not sure its really a marriage but a continuation of the dating cycle really. There are not experiencing this thing together and what man who loves his woman is so OK with her getting it on with others without at least wanting to be there in some capacity no?
Sorry but I'm not buying this marriage as lasting much longer!
So more or less you care about yourself more then your husband. You can tell he doesnt like it when you sleep with other men but you want to do it so you continue despite it obviously hurting him emotionally...just be honest with yourself and say that you dont care about him, at least then i could respect you for your honesty...but this whole thing just goes to show how women are never satisfied with what they have, they always want more. Good husband, decent sex life, stable, but its not good enough, you have to go stick whatever d*ck crosses your path between your legs. I guarentee that if your face was mangled and you couldnt pick up guys anymore you would ask him to stop sleeping with other women if he was. people like you make me sick.
I wonder what folks in open marriages would do if tomorrow they found out they couldn't attract anymore lovers yet their spouse still was able to? For example, and God forbid, Jenny was involved in an automobile accident which left her paralyzed from the neck down and could never again enjoy sex for the rest of her life, would she still encourage her husband to continue in the open marriage? Something tells me that she would, since she seems to have an extremely solid marriage, yet I can't help but feel that a part of her would be very, very unhappy knowing that other women were enjoying that which she could never again do, especially with her husband.
i think that an open marraige is more natural than a closed one. i went from a happy and healthy open relationship to a closed engagement and am considering leaving my fiance and getting back with my main man from the open relationship. i was happy and had my match and threw it away for the traditional way of things and am miserable. i know open is not right for everyone, but for some it is. i say good for you!
As Joseph said what if a pregnancy were to happen whether a wife got pregnant by a “lover” or husband impregnated his “lover” One could say abortion but what if the women impregnated does not believe in such? In this case kids are brought into it, the unborn child, and any kids that currently exist.
What if your spouse gets with someone who falls in love with them and this person decides to take drastic actions. Or your spouse leaves you because they too have fallen in love with a lover.
Interesting article though I would never participated in this type of lifestyle. I suppose if it works for others , well what they do behind close doors is their business.
Jenny: "Why am I married, then? Many people have asked me that question. So I’ll tell you exactly what I tell them. As hot as it makes me when a new conquest whispers something scandalous in my ear, nothing thrills me like the sound of my husband’s voice when I hear him say, “Hey, baby, I’m home".
Amazing what a powerful effect a little piece of paper called a marriage license has over many people. One wonders how they ever lived without it. LOL
Hi Jenny,
Lovely to read your article. This concept has been on my mind for a few months now, and you seem to echo my thoughts almost exactly. Thank you so much for this article, I feel it validates my thoughts - that there are other people out there that think like I do.
From the few people to whom I have voiced these opinions, I have only had negative comments - understandably so, since it is not an accepted or instituitionalized practice in society. Definitely a tabboo topic in India (where I live currently).
I think there will be a lot less heart break and divorce and messed up childhoods if people were more open about their sexual needs and did not depend on one partner for everything. It is okay to go for music concerts, or play sports with others if your spouse is not into music or sports. Then why not sex?
I too believe that honest communication does make for a healthy long term relationship.
Honesty - now that is a much misunderstood and misused word. Is it dishonest if you don't tell your husband the gory details of relationships with others? I don't think so. What you've said in your article about sharing the details with him - seems just the way to do it. No one other than you yourself can judge whether saying something would be honest or hurtful. Yes, and sometimes we make mistakes and get that judgement wrong...
I disagree with some other comments on this site about how you are acting selfishly and not considering your husband's feelings. I guess now that you have presented what people consider as "your side" of the story, there is curiosity about what "his side" of the story is. The point is, he has not chosen to share it with the world, and it probably matters very little to him (and you) what others think.
Yes, it is a sort of non-stereotypical situation where the woman wants more sex than the man. But so what? Real life has a nasty habit of not fitting in a stereotyped mould.
Couldn't help my ranting, sorry! And thanks a lot for sharing! Will definitely look forward to your book.
I truly hope that the folks who embark on the journey of an open marriage have addressed and resolved some of the following possible pitfalls they may encounter:
1. How much time are the extra-marital relationships going to take away from the marriage? Don't kid yourselves folks, it takes time to meet and get to know another person before they feel safe enough to have sex. To say that this doesn't come at the expense of the marriage is naive.
2. Where are they going to find the energy of extra-marital sex considering that a lot of them have a full plate on their hands with their careers, and kids that by the time they are alone they are often too tired to have sex?
3. What is a couple going to do when one of them becomes involved with a mentally unstable person who may put the lives of those dearest to lover in danger?
4. What happens if a pregnancy results from sex with a lover? This can become a disaster especially if it's another woman that the husband has gotten pregnant.Unlike a male lover who can be kept away by simply hiding knowledge of the pregnancy from him, this is not the case with a female lover for obvious reasons. Many a female lover hope that the pregnancy will push the man to abandon his wife and if it doesn't then they often use the innocent child to life for the couple a living hell.
4. If the open-marriage couple are going through some tough times, a lover on the side may become an obstacle in resolving through issues that afflict them at that moment not through sex but through emotional distraction.
5. What happens if the wife chooses the wrong man to sleep with and she ends up being raped? It bears remembering that rape is a traumatic experience that will affect a woman probably for the rest of her life and those who lover her the most.
I've no doubt that many who are in an open-marriage have addressed these issues and have come to an understanding, but sadly a lot of them won't know what they will do until they cross that bridge and by then they may end up regretting their choice to get intimately involved with others.
Just simply shift your thinking to the reality that no human being owns another and that both spouses can leave at any time of their own choosing. Your spouse owes you nothing and thus you should expect nothing from him/her.
Hell why even get married at all since the institution itself was founded as a way for a man to ensure that his children were biologically his and for a woman to secure the resources needed for her children to be protected and grow into adulthood. If a couple is sincerely committed to one another,then marriage is an obsolete and totally unnecessary social construct. Why make the divorce lawyers wealthier than they already are?
Sorry folks for the little rant, I just couldn't resist having a short fling with my inner anarchist.
sorry, I still hold that my statement is correct, it is hard for to fathom a life devoid of rules, it demands a paradigm shift. There is no cheating when you are responsible only to yourself. It would be similar to saying there is no law braking if there are no laws, there are no dissapointments if you have no expectations, there is no sin without religion, you cant speed if there is no speed limit. In other words you need to set rules for them to be broken.
Michael B,
Not much to say but to state that i agree with you 100%.
What I find amusing is the belief of some folks that an open marriage is somehow superior than a traditional marriage. I cannot help but chuckle for the truth is that it is the quality of the two spouses as people that makes or breaks a relationship whether it is a traditional marriage or an open marriage. To paraphrase a somewhat famous guy "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our marriages, but in ourselves."
Carlos,
Your statement "..., there is no cheating if there is honesty, it seems we dont speak the same language." Not necessarily for the same holds true for true traditional marriages. Dishonesty can occur in ALL relationships, including so called open marriages. There is no need to get defensive if we don't agree. Despite what you may think, I do respect couples who choose to go the way of open marriage. But a skeptic I shall remain.
JosephS - Patience, grasshopper. Look at the date stamps on the posts below. This is a slow conversation.
My wife and I have talked about this; neither of us has wanted it, but we've both wondered "what if...?" Ultimately it's like any other big life change for a couple. What if one of you changes their mind about wanting a child? Or finds they aren't getting their needs met? Or wants to take risks pursuing their dream, or move across the country to be with their family, or finds they lose their sex drive after having kids? etc...
In all these cases, the answer is: You'd discuss it. You'd look for every possible compromise that would be OK for both of you. Hopefully, you find one. And if not, you both weigh the options... Can you still be with this person? Are the trade-offs acceptable?
Your point below is absolutely correct; but look at it from the other side. Not all closed marriages are doomed, but it is naive to believe that yours is exempt from the stresses that cause half of them to end in divorce. And just because a couple sets rules regarding a closed marriage, there is no guarantee that your partner will abide by them.
Your situation is unique. I know couples who have closed their relationship, for a while or for good. I know others who have stayed open and worked through their differences. I know couples (both monogamous and "poly") who've broken up. Life is change; we seek stability, but ultimately there is none. You do what you can, and you do what you feel you must, for yourself and those you love.
JosephS, I thought I had answered your question, here is another try. An open marriage by its nature does not have rules, these are two individuals who live together for as long as they want to without restrictions or rules. In the example you propose there really wasnt an open marriage just an arrangement for sex outside of their relationship. Let me emphasize open marriages are not about sex, they are about ownership or the lack thereof, My wife does not own me not do i own her, whatever she does or doesnt do is entirely up to her and the same goes for me. if we change our mind about something in the future that does not obligate the other to adjust their views. I believe the issue gets convoluted when we try to keep it in the realm of sexual relations, Let me illustrate a different way.. my wife has friends of either gender in her social, work and school life. I know some of them and my relationship with them may be one of acquaintances, friends or coworkers, if my wife and I have a mutual friend we both talk to and she decides to stop talking to him/her does she have the right to 'command' me to do the same? We dont live that way. We are different people, individuals, separate.. always have been and always will be. You may delude yourself into thinking that you have some special 'right' over your wife, but that only last for as long as they also want that link, thus the incidence of divorce. I dont believe 'open' marriage solves every problem in life. I simply think that freedom is a better way to honor the wonderful person she is, I like her and wish to keep my best friend around, this is not something I can command, We are just trying to be the best humans we can be. Regarding your comment about cheating in open marriages, I find that hilarious, there is no cheating if there is honesty, it seems we dont speak the same language. 'cheating' doesnt exist in a true open relationship. You just do what you want to do. Nobody is watching you, checking up on you, judging you, which are the basis for the need traditionalist have to 'cheat' as a means for them to regain autonomy. My contention if we always have that autonomy, you may suppress it for a while but eventually it will resurface because you are human and I believe by observation that is the way humans are.
Wow. A lot of these posts remind me why my wife and I are still mostly "in the closet" about our open relationship. The world is full of idiots who think they know what's best for everyone, and are threatened by the idea that other ways could work for other people.
Our 11-year marriage has been open for the last six years. Like the author, we've found that it has strengthened our relationship, not hurt it. (It may have actually saved it.) It's not for everyone but it's been great for us.
And really, our version isn't as wild and crazy as people might think. I have a girlfriend; she has a boyfriend. We see them each once or twice a week. I also have a friend-with-benefits who I hook up with every couple months, just for fun; and that's about it. For us, it's been a great way to have both the excitement of new love, and the comfort of a stable relationship.
If you don't like it, don't do it. But don't think you can know what's best for someone else after reading a few paragraphs about their life. That's just stupid.
I agree with Michael B. Some of you people need to get off your high horse! For Jovian,lld, & Princess please get a grip! For the couples (including myself)who have an open marriage, we know where our spouses are when they say they'll be home late, DO YOU!! We don't have sex in front of our kids, so how are the children going to get "caught up in this turmoil"? Relax and take a pill,I also usually find that the people that shout the loudest are usually the people who have the most to defend!
Not to burst your bubble, but if you're going to argue, please do so intelligently and correctly, especially when quoting.
I said, "That can create confusion and turmoil in a child that is permenantly damaging", not "caught up in this turmoil".
Thanks
I stumbled upon your article when researching opne marriage arrangements, it is remarkable to see the similarities in your thinking and what my wife and I have experienced. We both 'get it' as far as understanding the problem with conventional marrieage falls squarely in the belief that marrieage gives each other an ownership right. We believe this convention is one sprouting from religious beliefs that really have no basis in reality or biology and that those views have hurt rather than helped human beings towards leading a happy life. As humanists we believe our duty is to become the best humans we can be, and not to mold ourselves to a dictated way of life that has more to do with religion's desire to control than to show us the way to happiness.. Thank you for your article.
Sabine< if you read my second posting I made reference to the fact that for some monogamy is indeed what works best for them so please read my comments before stating that I and others like me and my wife "think everyone is the same and thereby implying that everyone should be like us. Furthermore, your assertion that it is ok to condemn polymourus/ polyfidelitous/ and open relationships because you put on the same plane as sodomy is frankly worrying, and indicative of the intolerance that exists in the western world A world that tells everybody that it should be a free world and kills thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan in the name of "the free world" despite it being intolerant in the extreme.
If you actually think sodomy is the cause of all the problems in the world I suggest a period of studying world history from an objective perspective rather than the insular narrow minded right wing American one that has made the world such a dangerous place over recent years. Reading a wide range of books with an open mind would be a good start. What you might learn from an objective look at history is that intolerance and a belief that all should share teh same opinion has oft been the root of many wars and societal conflicts. Adolf Hitler didn't kill millions of Jews Gypsies Lithuanians Estonians those with learning difficulty and yes even 'sodomites' (presumably you would have supported him on that one but how many more groups would you have condemned?). Tolerance is the key.
my last comment contains an error in that obviously Adolf Hitler and teh Zazi regime did kill mant from the groups I mentioned. What was meant to follow was he didin't commit genocide becasue he was a sodomite he killed becasue of intolerance and a belief that HIS way was teh right one and therefore anybody who was thought or acted differently should be condemed. George Bush and the American right detest 'sodomites' but it didn't stop them killing hundreds of thousands in their present conflicts. Sorry about the bad editing in teh last post. Thanks or Diolch
Infidelity may simply be in our genes, they say. There are even scientific studies to back this up. Then again, some would say the urge to kill is part of our animal instinct, too, and I've so far managed to avoid acting on that one as well. Maybe it's that you simply lack willpower and conviction.
My husband and I are at the beginning of an open relationship. I however feel that I am in your husbands shoes as I have not had a different partner as my husband was with another woman (a close friend of his) within a week of our initial discussion. Don't get me wrong I like her as a friend and can see his attraction but Im just not ready yet. I understand the difference between love and sex and was wondering if you have ground rules with your husband as I have told mine 'DONT FALL IN LOVE' is this a reality or am I kidding myself? I love my husband and he loves me I just find he is happier having the freedom to have a sexual relationship else where. Thoughts and opinions please.
Wow, you're like a fishing net for STDs. I'm surprised that by now, you haven't recieved some sexy, mysterious disease like AIDs, and I'd almost bet money that you at least have some form of herpes.
I can see that you don't really care at all about your husbands' feelings. He DOES love you too much, and he has no backbone to speak of to stand up and speak his mind. He doesn't want to lose you (though I can't understand why). What makes it even more pitiful is that he's watching your juvinile and selfish lifestyle from the sidelines, and you won't stop for his sake because you want what you want, when you want it.
You obviously don't know what marriage is about. There's compromise, and hard work involved. It's not just 'honesty and trust'. Were that the case, I'd be married to my friends and family.
We're not animals, following our primal instincts to eat, sleep, reproduce, and kill. Social and moral standards are what seperates us from the animals.
Killing, by the way, is also lodged in our DNA. Your lifestyle is basically saying that we should follow that philosophy without abandon, because that's just who we are and we can't help it.
All I can say is that I feel sorry for both of you, and that I hope your daughter never, ever finds out. That can create confusion and turmoil in a child that is permenantly damaging. Please don't do that.
Jeny Block you rock! I admire your overall tone of honesty with your husband. I think thats the most important feature of a relationship. Ted Haggard, the Pastor, hurt so many because he was dishonest and hypocritical toward his family and church.
do you and your husband have ground rules?- as someone who is seeing a married man (open marriage) both parties have gf/bf
More power to you girlfriend. I myself would not want to be married to a man who didn't care if I f*ked around. But that's me. I also think that this will end badly. U usually does. You can never, ever, ever have it both ways in life. It just doesn't work that way.
What if somebody brings a disease home? Never mind the pregnancy! Losing your life may be more trecherous than starting another one.
Frankly, I just don't see the need for open marriages in a an advanced human civilization. Sex is a natural biological drive, hard-wired to the pleasure mechanism. Fortunately, it does not control us. It gives us urges, but we ultimately control it. When we don't mitigate it, we wind up alcoholics, heroin junkies, or sex addicts. Just because you have the urge - as do we all - to hump others, it does not mean you must or should answer to it.
Hopefully, there are things more important in one's life than fulfilling sexual desire. If not, you have my condolences. Since it is hard-wired with the pleasure/survuval mechanism, one must admit it is a pretty "base" drive - one we share with lizards and dogs. As humans, our relationships to one another, and with the planet can be realized and given more time, value and focus than out sex drive. It is what seperates us from lizards - our ability to filter out our desires and drives toward simple pleasures to pursue more complex and noble ones.
(And it avoids diseases!)
Why is it so hard for a married guy to find a women on the side? It is way to easy for my wife to pick up a guy. I love the idea of our open marrige. I just wish i could enjoy the bennifit of the whole idea.
this just makes me sad. her poor husband and child. We do not let gays get married, supposedly because it does not ft into the definition of a marriage, yet we call something like this an actual marriage.
This does not sound like consenting adults, it sounds like a sexually confused woman, who cannot control any sexual impulse and a husband who does not want to let go of her. So sad a child is caught up in this.
I have a question or two for those in an open marriage. What if tomorrow your spouse no longer wants an open marriage and wants the two of you to return to a traditional marriage? Would you comply with his/her request? I ask because it seems that once couples open the door to having extra-marital relationships, it may be impossible to close it later on.
Amen to what Jovian said. You sound like you never got out of your teenage hormone phase. Believe me, there's no emancipation or freedom in that.
"...our daughter isn’t exposed to any sort of debauched behavior. None of this affects her at all, in fact, because she never sees anything out of the ordinary."
If you say so, it means you do know you're hiding something to someone you care. Why to conceal something you think it's so normal?
I see you in 20 years, when you realize you're playing with fire.
Good luck.
Thank you very, very much for your comment. I am so excited for you and your husband. You might want to check out tribe.net (just search polyamory or open marriage); www.practicalpolyamory.com; www.lovemore.com; and http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.com/ just for starters. I wish you and your husband all of the best!
Regards,
Jenny Block
Author of "Open: Love, Sex, and Life in an Open Marriage" (Seal Press, June 2008)
I am soooo relieved to hear someone else talk this way! My husband and I have just started exploring having an"open marriage". It has been a great experience so far! We have been sharing, communicating and just enjoying each other so much more. We are taking everything step by step and learning as we go along. I know who I'm growing old with and there is no doubt in my mind that I am who he plans to be sharing a rocker with! Since we are new to this I would love to hear from other people who may have some advice for us! (chat rooms, websites meeting places etc...) Thank you so much
I would like to address JosephS question. An open marriage is not one where each is having sex right and left, in fact 'open' means simply that, the possibility is there with none of the disastrous implications a 'traditional' marriage has, but it may never happen that one, the other or both ever have sex outside their relationship. If you think about it, it is no different than your marriage (assuming you are married in the traditional fashion)
you dont know if your wife will 'open up' to another relationship, come to think of it, it happens a lot. What would you do then? that is where an 'open marriage' differs, we would do nothing of the crying and the screaming and the divorcing that is the lot of many. To answer your question more directly, Open marriages come in many flavors and it is simply an arrangement like any other, you seem to imagine that it is a 50/50 arrangement where if one engages in sex or whatever else the other must also do it like a one for you and one for me arrangement. That is not reality, some open relationships are one sided (either partner engages in one or many extra pair copulations) some are even and some never happen, just the possibility is there without the consequences we have come to expect. I hope this helps..
Thank you for your reply Carlos. I'd would just like to add that in two cases that I know of, the husbands were the initiators of the open marriage idea. The result is that they ended up regretting their decision because their wives vehemently refused to go back to 'plain, old vanilla marriage'. One of the wives ended up falling in love with her lover, went to live with him, and divorced her husband. Granted that not all open marriages are going to end up the same way as the ones I presented but it is naive to believe that just because a couple sets rules regarding an open marriage (i.e. the open marriage will end when one spouse no longer wants to participate in it) that they will abide by them. There is no guarantee that people in open marriages will not cheat on each other just as people do in traditional marriages.
By the way, none of the proponents or participants in open marriages answered my original question. How come?
And jhdickman, you bring up an excellent point with regards to open marriages. From the purely sexual POV, married women will always have much better luck having extra-marital sex than married men. It is just the nature of the beast. But take heart, if you live to be 80 and in good health, you'll have plenty of old ladies chasing after you. LOL!
I was in a relationship, where my 48 YO girlfriend, explained she want to sleep at her ex boyfriends for the weekend. This has been a fantasy of mine. I meekly said ok.
That evening was the best love making ever.
I admitted, that I liked the idea of other
c***s-sliding in and out of her- I said this while I was between her legs. It was a win win win situation. During happy hour with her friends, it seemed to be known- that I liked her having a lover.
I acknowledged, that it was a huge turn on for me, I liked the idea , they all knew.
The amazing thing is, its more exciting for me when she has a date, than me going on a date.
Would love email related to this.
Don
I and my long-term partner (23 years) enjoyed a loving and fun relationship with another couple for 14 years which worked very well for all concerned. We were already good friends and knew that we were all very open-minded generally as well as very sexual. None of us were into the idea of swinging and just being a notch on another bedpost (although fine for those that want it) as we associate sex with closeness as well as fun. We shared many aspects of our lives such as restoring houses, restoring cars, childcare, emotional support, helping each other’s extended families etc. We had sexual fun both as a group and individually from time to time in all the possible combinations (MF MMF etc). the relationship with this couple has now changed and we no longer are intimate as about 4 years ago one of the other couple (her) felt she was no longer into it. We remain the very best of friends and will always hold a corner of our hearts dear for this wonderful pair of individuals and my partner and I are still in love and committed to each other despite certain complications on our lives. So you see having a different sort of relationship i.e. non-monogamous, need not end in disaster even after 14 years.
We are not naturally monogamous and the animal instinct is to create as many kids as possible with as many different partners as possible therefore increasing the chance of our DNA being passed on. This is obviously not a practical way to lead a life ion the modern world or even a fairly old world with all its institutions mortgages schooling etc etc. However, just like we need to con other of our basic instincts (such as flight or fight etc) or they get us into trouble so we need to con this one as well. Polyfidelity was for us a way of doing that and we enjoyed having extra emotional and spiritual aspects in our lives. The statistics for infidelity make a mockery of the idea of monogamy the majority (various surveys put this at between 60% and 85% of relationships have some form of infidelity within them and many more have imagined/ pined for in. At no time have we been dishonest to each other in over 23 years, no secret kisses, guilty feelings, no almost affairs that often still involve a level of dishonesty even if you call it off before it happens etc etc. We don’t think everybody should live like this we are all individuals that should choose the relationship style that works best for those concerned within it. However, living apart but committed relationships, same-sex marriage, being single, monogamy, celibacy, are all examples of the diversity of relationship styles that now are common place. Choosing a non-conventional relationship style does not mean that it will fail or end in misery anymore than it would with conventional marriage with over 50% ending in divorce (http://www.divorce-advice.org.uk/) and high levels of dissatisfaction in those couples who are living conventionally. All relationships take work if they are to be mutually satisfying including those with parents, children, friends, siblings and the key is respect and negotiation with all who are affected. This rather than the actual number of participants or the style of relationship is perhaps the best key to a successful relationship.
We have now been without this type of relationship for over 4 years and whilst we aren’t actively looking for another couple to fall in love with we are always open to the idea should the right people coma along. We are both more than a little aspie in nature and behaviour and it is perhaps this that helps us to look at relatiosnships the way that we do i.e. completely objectively however, we are still chuffed with the state of our relationship after more than 23 years and it brings us great strength and joy.
I will be posting the same letter in the comment section relating to polyfidelity
Thanks for taking the time to read this and if you would like to comment I will be happy to discuss this further.
hwel fawr
Dafyddcoch
I have a few questions:
If you are so aure that it's OK to have sexual relationship outside your marriage, I don't understand why are you trying to hide it from your daughter. Perhaps she may not be the right age to understand, but do you ever plan to discuss this issue with her?
Personally I believe that a bit of possessiveness is necessary in a relationship. Whenever I imagine myself having a swinging lifestyle, I immediately begin to hate myself. I am not OK with the fact that I am letting my own woman sleep with others. Does that ever happen to your husband?
And the last question. It may appear out of context here but I will ask it anyway. How do you define what's OK and what's not? There are issues like incestuous relationships that trouble me a lot. If I agree that any form of sex is OK as far as it doesn't hurt anybody, either physically or psychologically, why shouldn't an incestuous relationship be OK? I have asked this question to a few people before and I faced positive animosity from them. I want to ask the same question: If you ever feel like having sex with some close blood relation of your's, will you go ahead and do it?
I LOVE having an open relationship with my boyfriend of 8 years. But it really is hard sometimes to deal with all of the "comments" that people throw our way. They think they're "helping" me or something. I stick up for my relationship and generally, after an hour conversation or so (if they actually LET me talk) they understand and are open to trying it out themselves!! I really do think the hardest part of an open relationship is OTHERS not taking it seriously. Just last night my friend asked me, "So, really...when are you guys actually going to be serious" What is that supposed to mean!!?? We're more "serious" than any of the couples around us! Anyways, it's just kind of frustrating sometimes.
We have our rules and we have fun. We have one of the most honest and loyal relationships I have ever seen. And I am always relieved to read other's experiences and opinions on the issue. Congrats and enjoy a long and fullfilling marriage!!
I would love for the writer to revisit this subject in about two more years. I think ultimately an open marriage is dangerous for most couples.
I have been married thirteen years. There is a beautiful freedom that comes from a having sex with your life partner. I am safe and free to try anything and so is he. We thought we had a great sex life in the beginning but it has only improved over time.
There is something else that I think an open marriage misses. There is something that happens with monogamous sex, with the person you love, that is a spiritual experience. Keeping this special gift just between us brings out a more soulful experience. Yes, sometimes its just sex, and sometimes its making love, and sometimes its both.
Maybe for some people, the trade off is worth it. Still, I wonder how many people have had successful open marriages for ten years, twenty years.
I've been on both sides of this. We had an open marriage for about 12 years, but pretty much drifted out of it.
My husband had generally negative experiences, and I had ones that were interesting but made me very distracted. I think one problem with open marriage is that you can loose your focus on each other.
Still, your article was enlightning. To each their own!
Perhaps "swinging" could possibly be good for a marriage in the right circumstances. Personally, its not for me and I think harm is more likely than good, but if both spouses really weren't going to fall in love with someone else and weren't going to get jealous, perhaps. I wouldn't be surprised that some folks out there have made such a lifestyle "work" to some degree. But something important is left out of the equation.
I find the complete lack of discussion about what happens to the outside lovers to be disturbing. Sure, some of them will be happy with a short term affair and go on their merry way, but a certain number of them will fall in love and be devastated. It is very common for someone to have sex just to have sex, and then fall in love. It doesn't matter if you promise each other that it is only one time or short term-still happens. A lot. With someone you don't know well, the chances of misunderstanding and misrepresentation multiply. You can say "but I told them it wasn't forever" but the pain will still be there. The same danger is there for the spouses. When you find that lover who really does seem to understand you better...will they walk away because it was just a fling? Will you be the one left crying?
I'd discourage anyone from just "trying" this-I'm at year 21 of my relationship, 16 of them married. She's still the only one I've been with-wouldn't change anything about that. Tempted, many times. Fantasize? Often. But I'm happy. I don't have to have every experience to live a full life.
If you are having trouble, get yourself a counselor. Look for what is really going wrong-I think you'll find other issues that need to be dealt with.
Jenny, my wife and I of six years were headed for divorce. Neither of us wanted it but, we new we were both unhappy with the way things were. I asked her what would it take to save this, we love each other to much to not try something. She said the only way would be an open marriage. I freaked. No way could I share my wife with another man. I was completely closed to the idea. But I was determined to save my marriage, and the only thing important to me was her happiness. I started reading everything I could find on open marriages. After reading and self analyzing, I realized my fear came from insecurity and fear of losing my wife. But, that is where it was already headed. So reluctantly I agreed. Wow! Our relationship has become something I never dreamed it could be. I came to realize that my wife didn't want to open our relationship because she didn't want me, it was precisely the opposite, she wanted it open because she did love me, passionantly. Our marriage has become the most trusting, loving and honest relationship I have ever seen. We made a set of rules and we both follow them to a T. No lying, no dishonest and no insecurity. We both have external sex lives and it has only come to make our personal sex life out of this world. I would never go back to a traditional marriage. Lying and cheating cause divorce not sex. Most people can get past the sex part in the case of a partner cheating, its the lies and betrayel that destroy the relationship. If more people could open them selves up to this I believe the divorce rate would drop overnite. I think it took a lot of bravery for you to air your life. Thank you, you saved mine.
My husband and I had an open marriage that lasted for four months in our second year of marriage. Before meeting my husband in college, I had extremely limited sexual experience. When I met someone that I had very intense sexual feelings for, I ran home and told my husband everything - before anything ever happened with the other man.
We decided to try an open marriage. We laid down rules and stuck to them the best we could. Mistakes were made and paid for. It was a very difficult time in our lives but also one of the most important experiences either of us have ever had. We confronted some of our biggest fears and challenged everything we knew about how a married couple was supposed to be. That has proven to be very empowering - we make up the rules for our life, it's that simple.
We closed the marriage when we moved to a new city. That was almost 4 years ago. We agree that it was exactly the right thing for us to do at that time, we'd be really surprised if we ever wanted to do it again, and we don't recommend it to anyone. Maintaining an open marriage is extremely difficult. But I am so glad we did it. My life feels more authentic and complete because of the experience.
Lady it's obviously nolonger sex that you need , but a very intelligent,patient shrink
You are a courageous human being. Living a vibrant, meaningful life is about discovering our own, personal meanings, not about upholding someone else's standards or "institutions." If all the marriages that are currently failing, and/or where one of the partners is cheating, were openly disclosed, we'd find that, like the majority divorce rate, the majority of marriages are a sham. People aren't afraid of sex, they're afraid of telling the truth.
Also, cheaters always exaggerate the rates of infidelity because they like to justify their behaviour by saying that everybody does it. The actual rates of infidelity are 28 percent of married men and 18 percent of married women. Even among couples that have been together for more than 30 years, four-fifths of women and two-thirds of men report being faithful during the entire relationship. The stats come from MSNBC/iVillages's massive "Love, Lust and Loyalty" survey (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17951664/). So don't assume that everyone is happy being like you people are, because we aren't. And open relationships have a higher divorce rate than monogamous ones, because "open commitment" is oxymoronic and unnatural. We are not animals, people. At least, most of us aren't. We are evolved, feeling human beings. Sex and emotions are intricately tied, don't pretend that they're not.
People in these relationships are just bored people who've been together for years indulging childish whims. Instead of putting in the work to build their intimacy within the relationship, they go and hunt for STD's and attention. I will never respect those in open relationships. I will try, but it's not looking like I can do it.
I have an open marriage[meaning I can date whenever I please]and I would never go back to only one man again.I like sex to much for only one lover.
I read through these comments, and I see mostly hatred, shame, and guilt from the "happily monogamous" crowd, and mostly sharing, loving, and life from the "you go girl" crowd. My feelings are definitely leaning towards the "you go girl", and here's a slice of my life, so you can decide for yourself why I feel that way.
My partner and I are in an "open" relationship, in the sense that either of us can, at any time, take a lover.
We have a few ground rules, of course, the most important of which is the honesty inherent in the relationship. Without honesty, there is no trust. Without trust, there is no relationship, because there is no relating.
Speaking as the male in this scenario, I would like to point out my personal feelings on the subject of this article. If my woman were to meet someone she liked, were to want to have sex with that person, and the other person was similarly inclined, I would be offended if she did not pursue it.
Allow me to reiterate, for those who missed it the first time: I *want* my woman to "sleep around". As a matter of fact, it would upset me if she were to *not* pursue physical pleasure, if it was offered, and she wanted it. If I thought that she had turned it down out of deference to me and my feelings of jealousy, or out of some sense of duty to me, I would be absolutely horrified.
Our household runs on rational thought. Our feelings, just like everyone else's, have little to do with rational thought. This is an enormous barrier to communication, but if you can figure out how to surmount it, then you're in a very good place.
We communicate constantly, and to be quite honest, our external "affairs" are few and far between. Having the freedom to have emotions, on the other hand, has made this one of the easiest and best relationships I've ever been in. The honesty was specified up front, the trust built on that, and we have been quite happy for over 7 years now.
We have found that intimacy and sex are not synonymous. We have both been in relationships where sex was a substitute for intimacy, and found them lacking. We have both been in abusive, controlling relationships, and found them to be unhappy and unhealthy. I have the (ahem) special privilege of having been on both sides of that, having been both the abuser and the abused, at various points in my life.
We have found our intimacy, and (surprise!) sex has very little to do with it. Don't get me wrong, the sex is still fun, we still chase one another nekkid through the living room occasionally, but it's not a *substitute* for anything. Now, the lovemaking, on the other hand, is intimate, but that's more than sex. It's cuddling, caressing, murmuring, focusing 100% on each other, getting inside each other's hearts and minds, sharing life and love and warmth and happiness. In other words, it's intimate. And yes, it's sex. But the two are no more required for one another than they are mutually exclusive.
The intimacy I have gained with my woman is invaluable to me, and I wouldn't trade her for the world. Because we communicate, I know she feels the same way about me.
I penned this post as "Anonymous Coward", because far too many people are far too predictable in their responses, and if my job were to learn that I live in this "lifestyle", I might lose it (the job, not the lifestyle). However wrong that may be, that's the world we live in.
Then why get married? Don't you know it's "just a piece of paper?" (So is a car's pink slip, but you'll never see a man be so cavalier with that.)
Is she just Jenny from the Block? Used to have a little now she's got a lot...of c**k?
your poor poor husband and daughter. Your self-delusion beggars belief. By definition marrige is not open nor can it ever be. Shame on you for defiling a beautiful thing through selfish greed. Please open your eyes to the evil you are doing. I fear the damage you have wreaked is beyond repair.
There are many versions of marriage who cares if a couple elects to have an open marriage if they agree fine. As Americans there are some serious hangups about such issues. Perhaps if some couples were more understanding then divorce rates wouldn't be so high. I for one would think that having a relationship outside your marriage is too much work, I mean having a great toss in the sack sometimes meets a most human need--some people have a larger sex drive and if there is a mismatch in the relationship who cares? In Asian culture it is not unusual for the husband to have a girlfriend and now women are also following suit.
This ideal of Ozzie and Harriet is something forced upon societies by culture and religion, you only have one life best of luck in building it a way that works best for you both
First I wanted to thank everyone who has taken the time to post. It's wonderful to see this topic being discussed so openly and fully. I also wanted to take a minute to address some of those posts. To Beth - It has been two years now since I wrote Portrait of a Marriage and we are better than ever. You mentioned wanting to see me revisit the topic after that amount of time. So, I hope you will read my new book - "Open: Love, Sex, and Life in an Open Marriage" to see how we are navigating things as the years go by. To Sabine - I am delighted you have raised the issue of statistics. According to the Census Bureau, in 2005, there were 110 million people who were married. So the 70,000 people they surveyed make up only .063 percent of married people. The University of Phoenix stadium can seat 73,000 on any given Sunday. So, it is certainly not a survey that can be characterized as being massive. And considering that it has been well-documented that a high percentage of people lie when asked about cheating, the percentages they quote are unimpressive at best. People cheat. A lot of them. But I don't need to know that to feel good about my choice. Monogamy is not part of our biology. Read David Barash's "The Monogamy Myth" if you want the cold, hard, scientific facts. And there is no proof - reliable anyway - that open marriages have a higher rate of divorce. But all surveys and statistics aside, what I am doing doesn't have to be "wrong" in order for what you're doing to be "right." I respect everyone's right to choose to be monogamous or not to be. But it is a choice. And both options are equally valid. My wish, for everyone, is lives lived honestly and authentically - whatever that means for them. And as for being bored - that's why I play Scrabble. For more information, go to www.jennyonthepage.com.
Saying "monogamy is not part of our biology" is a very cheap argument at best. Humans do quite a few things that are "not part of their biology"...driving, for a very simple example. There are people - believe it or not - who believe that monogamy is the only type of relationship that is fulfilling for them. Note I added "for them"...like you said, everyone is free to pursue their own happiness. I am not one to care one way or the other about things that do not affect me - another person's sexual habits or lack thereof are of little concern to me.
Having said that, quoting statistics whether for or against your position is a little naive. Statistics assume that every single person interviewed was 100% honest, that they are all in a similar situation in life (which won't even be true for two people in the same household most times, let alone 70,000 individuals), and that a representative sample can somehow speak for a greater population with varying beliefs and external factors - geography, societal norms, religion, personal beliefs, past experiences, etc., etc. Asking a few loaded questions and coming to a conclusion based on that is a dangerous thing.
More to the point - for me, "open" relationships have always seemed meaningless. When I'm single, that's when I have my fun with more than one person, and "play the field" so to speak. To me, being in a relationship means working towards something greater, not marriage per se, but a deeper and more intimate connection. Sex (once again TO ME) is an extension of that deeper connection with a person. Some people feel it's a physical act and that alone. To those people I say "good on ya", cos I've never been able to view it as simply that. In the animal kingdom, perhaps they don't have the cognitive ability to view sex as anything more than a pleasurable act that propagates the species. However, even in the animal kingdom there are examples of monogamy - penguins, for example, choose a mate for life, and will not mate with another even if their previous mate dies. Certain species of apes act in much the same fashion. However, all of this is moot because we are not animals. Humans are vastly more complex than even the most advanced animal. All of our interpersonal relationships scale in complexity accordingly, with sex (in my book) topping the charts.
So, when you say "monogamy is not part of our biology", speak for yourself. Some of us out here agree more with the penguins than the rabbits of the world.
I wanted to thank everyone again, including the eloquent anonymous coward, for their comments. Wow. I am inspired and heartened by so many like stories and only hope that those who don't subscribe for themselves will think twice before judging others who choose to live what are, for them, lives of honesty and integrity. I hope you will consider joining the newsletter at my site www.jennyonthepage.com and checking out my upcoming book Open: Love, Sex, and Life in an Open Marriage" (Seal Press June 1) for more on this subject.
I think it would be fair to say that if Jenny Block spent at least half the time working on her relationship that she's spent on plugging her new book, she might not need a open marriage.
An open marriage seems like a great idea- and may be great at first, but sex is something shared between peopl who are seriously in love. If your not in love with someon- what the hell is their penis doing in your pants!
Anyway, emotional attachments begin to form outside of the marriage, and that is SERIOUS trouble.
I strongly beleive in soulmates, and finding that one person that will complete you- so if you are looking outside of your marriage for sexual satisfaction, there is a deeper issue somewhere inside you. Your soulmate is the one able to turn you on and pleasure you perfectly, so there is no need to look to extra boyfriends or girlfriends or "sexbuddies" for pleasure.
Maybe you didn;t marry your soulmate and you rushed into the relationship. ( I don't know, that may be your situation).
I salute you. I am one of those people who would like more of something that I can't quite put my finger on and I am not courageous enough to open the subject with my wife of 17 years who I love unconditionally and passionately. I think the reality that love and sex are not one and the same thing is the key. As for the folks that disagree, let them know what is right for them before they decide what is right for all the rest of us.
I don't have the time, or the energy, to congratulate those people who are willing to persue what they need and want, while maintaining the fundamental neccessities of trust and communication with their partner(s).
As a polyamorous man who has been involved on all sides of the fence, I find it immensely pleasing that more and more people are branching out of the irrational and uncessary straight jackets that social convention places on relationships.
A relationship is made up of trust and communication. It doesn't *need* love. It doesn't *need* sex. You can add them, and I believe in all cases that it greatly enhances a relationship to do so. But honesty, trust and communication are the most necessary sections.
I've had sex only relationships, that worked because all parties understood what they wanted. I've had non-sexual deeply emotional relationships. I've had deeply emotional sexual relationships.
The only concern that can rationally exist regarding poly-relationships is time.
The rest is social convention, or personal insecurity, and I would challenge anybody to show me otherwise.
So yes, detractors, whom would believe that an open relationship or a polygamous, relationship cannot work.
Show me why?
That's not to say that monogamy is a flop. For some people, its the only option.
Any model of relationship that is based on honesty, trust and communcation *will* work.
Part of being honest, trusting and trusted, and of communicating effectively, is ensuring that all people involved know where they stand, what is happening.. and they know when to hold em, and when to fold em.
My wife and I just celebrated our 25th wedding anniversery. Before we got married she was quite honest with me and told me that there was no way she could be sexually faithful. We were both young at the time and were living a pretty wild life. She had numerous affairs, as did I. It was only when she became pregnant from one of her lovers that she really settled down. Since then our life has been much more normal. She always has a lover or two and I will occasionally get involved with another woman. At the age of 48 she's still extremely attractive, slim and athletic. Maybe it's not a normal life, but our marriage has worked perfectly for us.
We tired to work out the details of having an open marriage and belive me there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. How often can we "date"? How many nights away? Paternaty tests if I became pregnant. What options if I became pregnant. Who supports who? What if he got someone pregnant?
nice one Jenny can you email us we would like to talk to you in little more detail, we are also exploring and have been doing so for 6 years, it would be nice to have some people that we know that have a version of reality that is some where near ours to talk to.
I think the destruction of values is what is contributing to the downfall of society. I mean, it's a proven fact that promiscuity as your type displays is responsible for the the 50 million herpes rate in this country. You want to act like you're in college and sleep around, that's fine, that's your prerogative - but then, don't get married and make a joke of the institution. I pretty much feel that your "lifestyle choice" is right up there with sodomy so it's pretty hard for me to be tolerant or respect your decision, though I could certainly try harder, admittedly. And the other thing that really turns me off to listening to you people is that you're so sure that everybody is like you (as your questions implied) that it doesn't even occur to you that there are relationships in which both people believe very strongly in not being unfaithful to their partners.
W
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and comments--everyone--both those for and against the topic. I’d like to share four quotes about love, sex, marriage and values that have been insightful for me:
LOVE:
“[Love could be defined as] the will to extend one’s self for the purpose of nurturing one’s own or another’s spiritual growth.
SEX:
“[The person undergoing therapy] realized that sex was not a matter of commitment but one of self-expression and play and exploration and learning and joyful abandonment.”
MARRIAGE:
“. . . a true acceptance of their own and each other’s individuality and separateness is the only foundation upon which a mature marriage can be based and real love can grow.” “. . . my work [as an M.D. couples’ therapist] has led me to the stark conclusion that open marriage is the only kind of mature marriage that is healthy and not seriously destructive to the spiritual health and growth of the individual partners.”
VALUES:
“Despite their outward appearances they remain psychologically still very much the children of their parents, living by hand-me-down values, motivated primarily by their parents’ approval and disapproval (even when their parents are long dead and buried), never having dared to truly take their destiny into their own hands.”
If you are interested, these quotes were from the 1978 M. Scott Peck (M.D.) book “The Road Less Traveled: A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values and Spiritual Growth.”
I don’t agree with all of them, but they do get one thinking. My thoughts on the debate on Open vs. Closed marriage are analogous to the debate on Creationism/Intelligent Design vs. Evolution.
About one hundred or more years ago, not only did we believe that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth, but we also punished those brave free thinkers who rejected our hand-me-down beliefs. Today, however, even the most pious persons cannot deny (if they don’t want to lie) that the earth is not flat and the sun does not revolve around the earth. Therefore, perhaps one hundred or more years in the future similarly-minded people will not deny evolution?
The point is that how we choose to define love, sex or marriage reveals where we are in our own spiritual and psychologically development . . . , dare I say our own evolution. Articles like this and their resulting discussions are helpful in examining unhealthy emotional repression and tacit sexual dishonesty perhaps due to societal or religious fear, coercion and guilty forced upon us when we were reason-and-logically defenseless children.
No, you are not responsible for your own orgasm. In a partnership, you help one another to achieve your goals, orgasm included. But from the sounds of your article, partnership is not exactly your strong suit. More like, everyone for themselves.
Also, if your marriage was as open as you claim, you would actually be discussing and caring about the fact that your husband is obviously not enjoying this arrangement as much as you are.
Just another pseudo-marriage, giving the institution a bad name.
It was not until I began an open marriage- going on 8 months now- that I realized two things:
a- unless you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, you are in no position to judge them...
b- you have NO CLUE what is happening in other people's marriages and just because you see (or even KNOW) a couple who SEEM to have what the mainstream media tells you is a 'normal, healthy marriage', that don't mean sh*t.
I consider myself a pretty smart man. I think things thru when need be, feel things thru when that is called for as well. And I can tell you, if anyone reading this can give me advice as to what ELSE I can be doing to better myself, my life, and my family, I am all ears because I don't think I could be doing it any better than I am. So please, let me know.
Here's my situation:
Married for 10 years and a few months. Raised by my crazy mom to think sex and masculinity were bad things to be avoided. Consequently, my view of sex and my view of myself as a man has been messed up for a long time. Been in therapy for a while and am making good progress but sex with my wife- who loves sex and has no real hangups about sex- has always been average at best.
And so she played the role of the good little wife. For 10 years she went- for the most part- without what she needed and craved and wanted. And we were both very unhappy as she had to live without a core part of her and I had to pretend we had a 'normal' marriage.
It all came to a head on our 10th year anniversary and we were like: you know, screw it. We love each other, we love our family (3 kids), we love the life we have made for ourselves. But our sex life and our sexual life together is just not working. So we can either throw it all away (including the 90% stuff that works great) or we can get creative.
So she started seeing other men, just for sex. She knows I don't want her to fall in love with anyone but hell, one of the things this has taught me is to just let go and stop clinging to anything and let what will happen happen. So it's a risk I am willing to take. So far tho, so good. And I'm glad for that.
Meanwhile, I'm in therapy working on my self esteem issues, getting more comfortable with my body and with sex. Maybe I'll come out of it a new man and we'll be able to have the 'normal' sex life that we are told so often that we are supposed to have and want.
But I can tell you this: I don't regret it for a second. Because while my marriage my indeed end- for a number of reasons- it is so nice to be honest with myself and my wife and it feels so good to say to her, "Hon, my issues deprived you for YEARS of something you wanted and needed and I will no longer do that to you; I will no longer hurt you, the mother of my kids and the woman I love'.
So that's our story. And to those of you opposed to such a union, I have no issues with that. I am open to your suggestions, open to learning from you. Because look, I am not saying my situation is ideal. But I don't look at the marriages of my 'normal, non-open marriaged' friends who seem to just be going thru the motions and think that that is ideal either. Come to think of it, I don't know ANYONE in a marriage that I look at and go, 'I WANT WHAT THEY HAVE! THAT LOOKS SO GOOD AND SO REAL!' Because even those couples seem to have issues.
So anyway, any advice or perspective would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
Spin
Didn't stop me from getting married and having 2 kids.
Jenny is so right, living honestly is so important, I have learned the hard way by not being an honest person and I am paying for it. Thanks for the great article.
Your husband sounds like a drip. Personally, I would kick to the curb any bitch who was not 100% devoted to me in every way. But more power to you.
It's too easy to be dimissive by calling someone a slut. If she and her husband have an understanding who are we to judge? European couples have lived this way for years and I don't think we have a tradition of them referring to them as sluts. People are so threatened by women's sexuality because they worry it will usurp the family structure and our bs puritan morality. No one has the right to tell anyone what they can or cannot do with their bodies, even if they are married. Otherwise, husbands would feel well within their rights to beat and force themselves on their wives.
I have a strong sex drive and one man just doesn't do it for me. Even my boyfriend basically told me it was all right with me to find another sexual outlet other than him. As if I needed his permission anyway.
More power to you Jen!
WOW such positive opinions. Here's another look at the article: I am a woman in love with a man who is very much more sexual than I am. He loves the chase and the sexual thrill of the illicit comment. He loves to look. He needs sexual experiences like the author of this article. I used to wonder what the hell was wrong with him. I loved him, I tried to listen when he would ask for experiences and I was appalled and said "But I LOVE you, isn't that enough?" It was and it wasn't, he tried to bury this drive and refocus it but it was just ruining our relationship cause we were being buried by the crap from the elephant in the room. So I decided to try a bit...to give in as it were. The experiences were....well they were experiences. I enjoyed some and some we mutually agreed weren't for us. I let him do his thing openly and the pressure to do them was relieved. I WAS HAPPY....yes I didn't necessarily want to know the mechanics of what happened with his other women, but if he wanted to tell me I'd sometimes listen. I was NOT stuffing my anger away to be brought out at another time. Then an amazing thing happened, I met another man. I'd known him for a long time but we gradually began to connect on a deeper level. My husband invited him to come to our home so we could meet face to face, yes I can hear everyone gearing up to tell me all about the "dangers" of this sort of thing but come on simple precaution is easy to take. I fell head over heels in love with him, and he with me. Did I suddenly see my husband as a hinderance? NO my love for him never wavered nor changed.
That being said I empathise with the author's husband. Love her, cherish her and never let anyone tell you you should feel any sort of anger or hurt. Be honest about what you desire from her and let her be herself. Maybe lightning will strike for you too, we were in an "open marriage" for a few years before I met my other love. I wish you both peace and joy,
~Airen
Excerpt from an article I thought might be a good idea to post here:
The Open Relationship
Fool's Gold
Has anyone ever seen this work outside of high school? Come to think of it, does it even work out in high school? This is an absolute pipe dream for anyone who claims to have a serious connection with his or her significant other. The sad truth is that human beings are not wired to function in a multiple partner system. There used to be a time when it was necessary to have lots of prospective mates, but we dropped our animalistic survival instincts when the Renaissance happened. We ceased being mere beasts and became a race of love obsessed wannabe romantics. Plus, improvements in our diets made us all more fertile, cutting out the need for King Richard’s seven wives. Sorry folks, no one's really happy about it, but we can't take it back now.
Apart from the onset of salads, the open relationship just doesn't work because no one is strong enough to fight off the thought that they are sharing the person they love with someone else. There is no human emotion stronger than jealousy-fuelled rage, and one way or another, someone is going to be heartbroken in any equation that involves more than two people.
from: "3 Reliable Ways To Ruin Your Relationship,"
The marriage is not working. If it was working they will both be going out and having a good time. He's hurting but loves her too much to say so. I have no problem with the concept but this particular marriage is a business arraignment. Like she said, he does not believe he can pickup any hot girls so he believes she's his best chance. How does the child figure into this equation?
This whole thing sounds like a chapter in her novel. She's testing to see our reaction. I hope it fake like the novel because her husband comes out looking like a dude without balls.
I'm with Live4Love about this one. She is a unconventional skank. Their is no excuse for her behavior, only that she is self centered. Marriage is always a sacrifice, and she seems to immature to deal with it. Men/women like her should not get married because they are emotionally unsuited for any sort of long term monogamous relationship.
In addition, Rachel36 is a retard, this has nothing to do with damn womens rights or womens sexuality. If you want to screw around on the side "DONT GET MARRIED MORON!"
Her first boyfriend telling her she is responsible for her own orgasms is so sad. And her marriage is sad. And her husband is sad. I hope she doesn't kill him with a STD. When she is through treating her husband like s**t, or he grows one, I hope he finds a nice girl who loves him enough to be kind to him, because he is obviously a wonderful man. How come the dregs of womenhood so often get nice husbands, while the good girls get the bad boys. I don't understand.
Of course a woman would want to cheat on the type of pansy that would allow it, it's a self selecting group.
I was interested to read this article, and I can see both sides of this article. Husband hasn't ventured out while wife cuckolds him repeatedly. He's spineless, or he just values the home life and lives with (or is turned on by) being emasculated time and again. Of course she's grateful and in love with this man who indulges her every sexual whim. What woman wouldn't?
I could not bring myself to doing this. I've been married for seven plus years and I'm a recovering addict. With my propensity towards overindulging I'm afraid I'd ruin a good thing. I've had some close moments with a co-worker and have paid for a few prostitutes but I never saw those as cheating.
The problem is -- and maybe someone here can address it -- is that my wife, after two kids, has very little interest in sex. When she does get in the mood, the sex is OK, nothing spectacular. I'm in my mid-40s, and though I can't perform the way I used to, I certainly don't want to settle for just OK all the time. Sometimes I want awesome, mind-blowing sex. She's just not there. She's never been beyond missionary in the dark in the bed, at least not more than a few times. I get to do down on her, but never get it reciprocated (in nine years wit her I can count the BJs on one hand and I've never climaxed with her that way). So, I'm frustrated and would like to enjoy sex again, but I'm afraid I'm consigned to this life.
I really enjoyed your article. My boyfriend and I are contemplating having an open relationship. I was wondering how it's working out now, since I can't seem to find out when you wrote this. Thanks!
Since when was monogamy the only way to exist in a marital relationship. David, Solomon, Mohammed, and many of the Popes over the centuries have had many spouses or clandestine lovers. Count the number of US presidents who have had non-marital lovers! They number in the majority NOT the minority. Count the number of evangelists and ministers who have had affairs. From Paula White to Jim Bakker and a host of others. Those are just the ones that were caught. I am just saying that monogamy is obviously an unnatural state. 187 cultures have some form of non-monogamy despite the Western belief in it is practiced in the exception more than the rule. Just being reality based rather than the fantasy that many would live in. If you really get to the bottom of things, you will find a remarkable number of people have had affairs while married. They will not own up to it unless they trust you, so most of you would never know if your best friend or even your spouse has had an affair. Why do I bring up religion? Because that is where most of these fantasies about monogamy and happily ever after are taught.
I think the author should be commended for being honest about her needs and wants. If her husband wasn't comfortable, he could say so and it seems then she could decide what to do next: stay or leave. So far, this arrangement is working because they are communicating. That is so much more difficult, in some ways, than staying "faithful" to your partner. In fact, I would bet that more people are trapped in marriages that appear healthy because the couple is monogamous but communication has so broken down that both are actually unhappy.
Of course she's happy with their "open marriage". He's had one affair, with her friend, while she sleeps with total strangers. She isn't worried about STDs (how stupid) and she really isn't worried about him.
He will wake up one day and she won't hear, "hey, babe, i'm home"........
Kudo's to her for telling her story and being open and honest in a world that is so ready to shoot down anything or anyone that isn't "normal"!
She may not be living the lifestyle that others choose but it is her life and she is exploring it to the fullest, not something many dare to do or at least dare to do as honestly as she is, so while it isn't for everyone it is better than half a life or a life of lies.
I feel bad for those on here who are so critical of her choices and life that they can only criticizes. This is what life in the US has come down to, a lot of self-righteous people willing to condemn someone for being different... it's these nests of riotousness that we end up seeing the greatest hypocrites fall.
It's easy these days to justify your actions with a bunch of academic theory and literary flourish. You can label it a feminist awakening, or self-respect and exploration, or whatev. Just as long as you make it sound like a personal journey and a process of self-discovery, nothing's right and nothing's wrong to some people.
"Sex different than which any one person could provide." Isn't that Ho-speak for, "I'm a nympho?" Look, if she wasn't married, more power to her. Do what you want, however tacky it is. But she says that she knows that her actions might destroy her marriage, but she does them anyway. Shows how much she truly values her marriage and her husband.
"Playpen effect?" Aren't playpens for children? Whatever happened to being an adult?
(And how much do you want to bet that she was already sleeping with the grad student during those "late nights" before she tried to sell her husband on joining in? Good way to justify what she was doing already.)
It's bad enough that she does whatever she wants to do, and then sells it to her poor husband. It's even worse that shares it with the world in print, to show how enlightened and liberated she is. She's an attention whore, as much as anything.
As for her husband: When's enough, enough, bro?
@Damon: So, according to your logic, it would be better to openly do shady things, as to not be a hypocrite, as opposed to secretly doing shady things.
How about we just don't do shady things. You have a rather expansive view of "what is natural." Even animals organize themselves according to certain conventions of social conduct. If you stray into a territorial animal's habitat, he'll chase you away or he'll bite you. Try it sometime.
So how is it unnatural for humans to organize ourselves according to certain conventions of social conduct? Your logic doesn't follow.
This is a joke, right?
First, these are not "conquests" as she likes to call her lovers. Any woman regardless of looks and brains can walk into any bar TONIGHT and get laid. What a joke that she deludes herself into thinking she has gotten some prize.
Second, what is he hanging around for??? "So far, no one has come even close to making me want to jump ship." That's right: people have sex with others with the idea of finding someone BETTER. That is all she is doing while expecting him to wait around (in case her latest "conquest" is not better...). There is no marriage here whatsoever because there is no committment.
Her husband must be a serious joke. And she is completely deluded into thinking she is "different" and somehow more enlightened.
The author has real guts talking about her personal life so openly. It's through this type of dialogue that we learn more about ourselves and our world and not through censorship, mocking or passing judgement on others because of how they look, what they believe of how they live. Being different is not a crime.
@LA-Dallas Keep in mind that it was through "a sense of judiciously exercising our rights within a framework of collective responsibility" that the holocaust, slavery and a host of any number of other atrocities happened and continue to happen.
My partner and I briefly tried out the idea of an open relationship when we met. For both of us, the excitement was very short-lived and we both left some very painful situations in our wake. For me in particular I was surprised how long it take to fully trust him after that, even though I was the more "active" one when our relationship was open. I won't say that an open marriage or an open relationship is never a feasible option, but I will say that everyone, to a certain extent, chooses the drama s/he will live out in their relationships and that these dramas are often a reflection of our experiences in childhood. For some people, that might involve sneaking around. Others might attempt open relationships or become very suppressive about their sexual feelings. Some people become married to their jobs instead of their partners. Others see sex as shameful even as adults and may find their only release in porn or romance novels (yes, I'm mentioning the two in the same sentence). There are endless variations. I will never attempt an open relationship again (my boyfriend/lover/partner and I have been together and monogamous for 5 years now) but that brief period during which we attempted it did teach me the importance of being honest with people. I was raised in a family where I rarely rebelled outrightly; instead, I would sneak around in order to "protect" my parents. There was a period in my early 20s where my sex life/ relationships really reflected this trend. I recently read through old journals of mine and one thing that I noticed and remembered was the difficulty I had in saying "no" to people—— no, I'm not comfortable with that; no, I don't think it's a good idea if we have sex with each other; no, I might think I just want a one-night stand, but I really want a much deeper, long-lasting love! I needed to learn to say "no" to what I believed was pure desire for sexual contact and face up to the fact that I see sex as an expression of a deeper attachment. I have never been able to pull off a "casual" sexual relationship. Do I regret my earlier sexual forays——no. In fact, I'm glad that I experimented sexually before choosing a committed relationship.
My sense, however, in reading Jenny's essay is that she should be cautious about imposing her "needs" on her husband. It's interesting how the insistence on being "open" about our "needs" in a relationship can become controlling. On the other hand, her husband may like (or think he likes) having her be in charge. Or, he will eventually rebel against her. Typically we think of Jenny's role as the man's role and some of the comments reflect the genre of judgments people impose on women's sexuality when it doesn't fit into a very narrow definition.
I think the idea of marriage is flawed to begin with, but it's also impossible for me not to see the act of seducing random people whom you ever see again (whether you're married or not) as tied to a deeper need than purely sexual satisfaction. The need to feel desired? The need to be in control? The need to act out or keep secrets? Anyone who is venturing into the world of open relationships could benefit from seeing a therapist at the same time, in order to take a look at what might lie a little deeper. After all, there are other people involved...
I can't help but wonder if the husband (who is portrayed as a loving, understanding partner) isn't actually an incredibly insecure guy, thinking he'd lose his wife if he didn't go along with her indulgences? I'm not judging here, just a thought. We tend to not acknowledge truths about ourselves.
Personally speaking, I find that there is nothing like connecting with that one special person sexually. There's just something amazing about one-on-one intimacy, knowing that you two belong to each other and no one can come between you. Naive? Maybe...but I like it.
A few weeks ago, I offered my comments on whether or not having an affair was potentially "good" for a marriage (http://fullpermissionliving.blogspot.com/). I was responding to an article that was in the NY Times on the subject called, "An Odd Turn of Affairs." (http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/body_and_soul/ar...)
I believe that openness is the key to a good marriage, along with the two partners being fully in love with each other, of course.
Here are some samples of what I found in Jenny's piece, interspersed with my interjections and conclusions.
"When my husband and I first started dating, it was obvious even then that our drives were quite different. As much as he enjoyed sex, he didn’t need or want it as often as I did. But I fell so madly in love with him, I figured it didn’t matter. We had an adequate sex life, probably pretty darn good by some standards. Still, there were always things I wanted that I simply couldn’t get from him."
After having an affair that ended with a lot of bad feelings all around, Jennie and a girlfriend of hers talked and decided to try another approach.
"My husband and I had a six-month affair with my close friend. The three of us had sex. He and she had sex. She and I had sex. And, of course, he and I continued to have sex, just the two of us. The arrangement eventually faded out, and we all slipped back into our previous relationships. But my marriage was forever changed. Our experience with her was the catalyst that led us to explore open marriage."
Okay. And how exactly is "open marriage" actually defined and lived out for Jennie and her husband?
"Being secretive, lying, or sneaking around—those would be surefire ways to destroy our marriage. But the (extramarital) sex itself is not a threat."
I'm with you there, Jenny. Dishonesty is the real killer of all relationships, especially in the form of self-deception. Jenny goes on to reveal that her husband had decided to be "open" to Jenny having extramarital sex, even though he wasn't interested in partaking himself anymore after the threesome experience. That's pretty open, right?
"My husband hasn’t pursued anyone since my friend. He says he’s too shy to pick up girls, and, really, he doesn’t feel the need. I can sometimes tell that the fact that I do hurts him."
What is Jenny's basic motivation in this situation? Well, her husband's not as into sex as she is and...
"I think of it as the 'playpen effect': You keep a kid locked up in one of those things and all she thinks about is how to get out, how much she’ll love what’s in the other room. But let her roam free and check it all out, and odds are she’ll end up at your feet."
So, now, let's see, Jenny's the kid in the playpen and her husband is who? The parent who can either keep her penned in or set her free? Uh-oh. Time for some rationalizations.
"Lots of people are basically in open marriages: They have illicit affairs. My husband and I simply decided we were ready to be honest, with ourselves and with each other, about what we want and need."
Well, here's the thing, Jenny - honesty, and open marriage, like open anything, should really mean, firstly, open to the kind of truth that can only come with real self awareness. Unfortunately, the concept of "open marriage" has been co-opted to merely mean having sex with more than one partner when you're married, not unlike the way the concept of "pro-life" has been co-opted to mean anti-abortion (even though the same so-called pro-lifers are still pro-death penalty and pro-war). Two people can be having sex outside of their marriage, even with the other's knowledge, and not be in a relationship that could realistically be called open, certainly not if they're unable to be fully honest with themselves or each other. As in, don't ask, don't tell?
"If I’m with another woman, he wants every gory detail. But when I’m with another man, sometimes he’d prefer not to know it happened at all."
Next, Jenny asks herself the excellent and obvious question, and then, gives the telling answer.
"Why am I married, then? Many people have asked me that question. So I’ll tell you exactly what I tell them. As hot as it makes me when a new conquest whispers something scandalous in my ear, nothing thrills me like the sound of my husband’s voice when I hear him say, “Hey, baby, I’m home.”
There used to be a word for that - codependency. You, husband, play the good, unconditionally loving, permission-giving Daddy for me, and I'll act out your suppressed, vicarious fantasies for you, and even though our levels of Eros and sex aren't up to snuff as self-actualized adults, at least we love each other, right honey?
Well, look, by now, anyone who knows me knows that I'm neither a prude, nor a conventionalist, and I have no moral judgement whatsoever about extramarital sex. Most things by themselves are neither good nor bad, extramarital sex included. It's the intentions behind most actions that determine their positive or negative effects. So, is there a situation in which partners in a marriage could have sex with someone outside of their marriage that would be a functional action of that marriage? Yes. But it would be quite rare, in this way: You'd have to be talking about two people who are so in love, so hot for each other sexually, so honest with themselves and each other and clear about their intentions that introducing another person into the mix could actually be a spontaneous, creative expression of that high level of Eros in any given moment. It would not be coming out of sexual incompatibility or dissatisfaction with one's partner, nor would it be coming out of boredom in the relationship. It would instead be almost like an overflow of the passion and playfulness in the sex-life of two lovers. And finally, it would mean that both partners experience themselves as adults, not as kids wanting to escape the playpen!
I read this article (I think it was on here actually) about how career women are more likely to be unfaithful. The author, a successful journalist, does a good job of proving that article. Perhaps men are better off with unambitious women after all.
I just feel so bad for this chick's husband. He's a conventional man who is married to a hobag. How sad.
I contracted an STD from an ex-boyfriend, and my more promiscuous past. I was lucky; the one I had was curable, and it was detected before it caused serious reproductive harm. Unfortunately, I had to find out I had it from another man, who showed symptoms after having sex with me. I never had any. Had I not hooked up with him and taken a more reliable STD test, I may not have found out in time and the damage could have been extensive.
I have now been in a monogamous relationship with a man I love for a year. It feels so wonderful to be able to explore each other's bodies... the intimacy and the trust there is... being able to have unprotected, organic sex (I'm on the Pill) and not worry about "catching" anything, knowing that his body is a vehicle for my pleasure, and mine for his... it feels wonderful to not have awkward first-time sex, when neither of you knows how to please the other.
There is something inherently erotic in sexual ownership. It's the reason the vast majority of people today will still choose to get married at some point, even though it's no longer necessary.
I just can't help thinking as I read this, what's the point?? The cons vastly outnumber the pros.
And don't give me any crap about how I "inherited this guilt and these repressive views from my parents as a child." These are MY views. I take ownership of them because I'M the one who feels that this behaviour is juvenile and accepting said behaviour from your spouse conveys a lack of self-respect.
This husband. Wimp. This wife... sex-addicted slut.
Done and done.
Statistically, over 90% of open marriages fail. So those of you extolling the virtues of it are fools. It's selfish, it shows lack of growth and maturity (after all, it takes a great deal of adultness and responsibility to promise commitment and sexual fidelity no matter how much you want to do what YOU want or how much your partner is pissing you off at a particular moment, and then follow-through), and an overabundance of hormones. You're not in college anymore, people. Grow up or stay single.
Thank you so much for all of your comments. I am delighted that my piece has sparked such conversation. Open relationships are not for everyone. But it is everyone's responsibility to live honestly. If you are interested in reading more, I hope you will visit my website www.jennyonthepage.com and read my upcoming book "Open: Love, Life, and Sex in an Open Marriage" coming out in June from Seal Press. You can find it at Amazon and other retailers.
A meta-comment:
Why do people assume that they know from an article like this what's going on in someone else's marriage?
I got married when I was in my early thirties after plenty of adventure, and while I am polyamatory in my fantasies physically I am happily monogamous. Yes, I am responsible for my own orgasm, which is why I have sex toys and an imagination. While I don't condemn those with "open" relationships, I do have to say that the three couples I knew who had them are no longer couples because there was always one who enjoyed it more. And some people will say anything to keep their loved one happy, including "Yeah, you can sleep with other people if you want." Personally I think the negatives--unwanted emotional entanglements, the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy or STD--far outweigh any positives.
Well done, and thanks for this great article. Puritanical American can't figure out anything except through the lens of corrupting and inhibiting religion. It is our life, not that of religion or the false morality that parades around in the guise of religion. I have been living an open lifestyle for many years and have never been happier or more able to be honest. Monogamy is a one size fits all approach that simply does not apply to at least 60% of humans. Polyamory has been around forever, stop pretending people aren't having affairs. Be honest and negotiate with your spouse and live your life. Pretending to be monogamous and having affairs is neither healthy nor happy. Being poly and responsible as this woman is, is both healthy and happy. Those who can't understand this don't have to sleep with anyone else if they don't want to. What she does is not their business. How she relates to her husband is not their business. For those of you interested in this lifestyle, there are some great books on it. Those of you not interested in this lifestyle, go back to reading your iron age Bible. It has some great advice for sexual relationships like selling your daughter into sexual slavery, sleeping with your deceased brother's wife, becoming celibate so you can be pure for some god, believing that Jesus was celibate and was followed around ancient Israel by 12 unmarried men. If you believe that, I guess you can believe about anything.
I truly think that it's people like you that gives the sacred of marriage a bad name! When you said your marriage vows to one another, did you change anything in it that you don't like to benefit you or did it remain the same? It just goes to show how far some people (such as yourself) will go to feel better about something they're doing doing and they know it's wrong! It doesn't take a brain surgeon to tell you that what you're doing is wrong and that you're truly hurting your husband! Although I'm not one to judge but I will let you know that you're wrong in your actions, behavior and attitides! If you truly want to be delivered from this horrible thing(s) that you're doing, I suggest that you pray, repent with a sincere heart, ask for forgiveness from God and your husband and truly try to live in a righteous way! People no longer want to talk about God, as though He doesn't exist but I'm here to tell you that He does! All you have to do is repent, ask and it shall be given to you! I do you pray your strength in the Lord as I hope that you will do the same for me!
God Bless
Wow! I've heard some ingnorant musings but Damon really takes the tostada. To take something like a selfish woman practicing infidelity and injecting religion into it, that sort of stupidity is really impressive.
I don't know where Damon got his history lessons from, but civilizations throughout the centuries and across every continent have some sort monogamous form of marriage, be it buddist or hindu. To take umbridge with the practice is fine, but to extrapolatite Judeo-Christian values specifically and dismiss them shows a bias that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Good for you!
Sadly the biggest tragedy isnt Damon's worried thought processes, but rather his apparent enthusiasm for taking on many partners. The fear that Damon might be passing on his flawed genetics to future generations makes me weep for the future.
@Damon: I'm hardly a religious type. I haven't been to church regularly in over a decade. That's hardly the point. The point is, I value someone enough to commit to them, and I'm concerned enough for them to not risk damaging them emotionally or physically by chasing my sexual desires like the wind.
And how she relates to her husband IS my business, once she brags about it in a public forum. If she doesn't want my opprobrium, she should keep it to herself. I'm not judging your relationship, I'm judging hers, which is the subject of a piece she made the decision to publish and share with the world. If you feel uncomfortable about my criticism of her lifestyle, that's a you problem.
@OpenMind: You want to know what's really destroying America? This interesting idea that we all have rights without responsibilities -- the idea that life is all about self-empowerment and what I can do for me all the time, rather than a sense of judiciously exercising our rights within a framework of collective responsibility. That's why we have a country full of Lindsay Lohans right now.
