But again, it doesn't quite fit with the book because the book is an optimistic look about how you can maintain a healthy monogamous relationship. And one of the keys is, too, that if you're going to have sex with the same person for the rest of your life, you've got to figure out some ways to make it interesting and creative. And I actually think, the years when you have young children are a good time for that because often you're having to explore. Maybe you discover pornography, like we did. I mean, that was something that I thought was terrible and then suddenly it is something that, in fact, is a useful tool. Same thing with a vibrator or maybe there are different sorts of sexual things that are exciting for a couple that they would discover in times of stress.
You're familiar with Esther Perel and Mating in Captivity. She talks about switching gears from being a wife and mother—a caregiver, to being a sexual partner and a woman. Would you agree it's an effort?
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Yeah, I think that's a real challenge. My experience was a little different in that I was in graduate school when I had my first baby and I didn't have any help. I thought I wanted four children, and I thought that this whole motherhood thing was just going to be so fulfilling and my doctoral studies would just sort of disappear, and that this would be it. In fact, it was really difficult and those were some really dark days when the kids were super young. So, my husband would get home and I literally would be like, 'We have to go to the bedroom right now and do this' because it was the way I was maintaining some semblance of self that wasn't totally eclipsed by the baby. At the end of a long day of chatting with moms at the park or going to a play group or going to Gymboree, or whatever my day had been full of—and lots and lots of conversation, very important conversation about how to get the baby to sleep through the night, or how to get your body back—I just felt like I needed to be an adult. Frankly, sex is a very efficient way to feel like that.